5 ms·

What would happen if, some fraction of the way through the long stretch of bureaucratic meetings, someone just coded a prototype? If they sit on it and whip it

What would happen if, some fraction of the way through the long stretch of bureaucratic meetings, someone just coded a prototype? If they sit on it and whip it out the moment the green light is given, then what? If they whip it out at the next red-tape meeting, then what?

tdicola 11y ago
Their manager will have a stern talking to them about how 'this isn't how we operate' and 'you broke protocol' and 'made everyone look bad'. They'd be reassigned to the most boring and menial tasks until they quit.
grecy 11y ago
I can tell you what happens. I worked at a very large telco. We went through months of daily meeting with 10+ very expensive execs, PMs and Business Primes from all over the business. One day the only other coder in the room leaned over to me and said "Are we still talking about <x,y,z> that you or I could code in 10 minutes?" Yes, we were. I coded it and showed my managers and so forth. I was completely ignored, and the meetings rolled on. In a place like that, there are so many people that have job titles that have nothing to do with "getting it done", which in a funny way makes them less interested in getting it done. Their job is to analyze, plan, document, process map, etc. etc. so that's what they're going to do, no matter how trivial the thing is.
- AndyNemmity 11y ago
  Exactly! I would argue it creates MORE red tape and work to do that, than less. I've done it, I've seen it, it actually makes your life worse, not better.
  - grecy 11y ago
    When I stopped trying to make that place better (I'm banging my head against the wall) and started just going with the flow, I knew it was time to leave.
- Gratsby 11y ago
  Ha! My favorite Telco story was when I was hired to come in and do performance improvements on an enterprise application. Day 1 I figured out what the problem was, and I could have the solution in place by the end of the day. The manager who was in charge of the application thought that a quick solution would make him look bad. I was explicitly ordered to sit on my thumbs for six weeks. The thing is, once you know the solution every other action is senseless. There are people who are perfectly happy being a billable body for a living. I'm not one of them.
dzhiurgis 11y ago
Actual developers do bot go to these meetings. But if you actually did that, you'd be told off by your manager for wasting resources.
- AndyNemmity 11y ago
  Sometimes they do.... and they will stop going immediately if they don't follow the script. You either understand and enable the other people to accomplish what they want to accomplish, or you're not being invited ever again.
blantonl 11y ago
Project managers don't spend 1290 hours to plan a 1 hour implementation. If you did that, your contract would be terminated and the PMs would find someone who knows how to turn that 1 hour prototype implementation into 3000 hours of work.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
Godel_unicode 11y ago
They would probably get in trouble for performing work which the government representative (Contracting Officer) had not authorized. The larger issue is that the government is not setup to move quickly, and for the majority of things the government does oversight is a good thing. That level of process does make it hard to do things like this efficiently, but it's all about trade-offs.
AndyNemmity 11y ago
This happens all the time. People aren't stupid, and often do this. I will seriously answer your question of what happens. They will be told to shut up, because they haven't listened to the requirements. No one will want to hear it on that call. They will be told it's the wrong audience. If they push forward, they'll have a conversation with a lot of people after the meeting about how they aren't being helpful. They'll be told to have a separate meeting with others to validate it. Then in that meeting, those people will rip it to shreds, and indicate that it needs to conform to X Y Z... The PM will then work with you to go through when what actions will be done... Then they'll schedule new meetings. On and on.. Nothing will change. I've tried it, and seen it tried. It doesn't work. You go through the process, or you create even more bullshit red-tape for yourself, and you're seen as a loose cannon no one trusts.

tdicola 11y ago

Their manager will have a stern talking to them about how 'this isn't how we operate' and 'you broke protocol' and 'made everyone look bad'. They'd be reassigned to the most boring and menial tasks until they quit.

grecy 11y ago

I can tell you what happens. I worked at a very large telco. We went through months of daily meeting with 10+ very expensive execs, PMs and Business Primes from all over the business. One day the only other coder in the room leaned over to me and said "Are we still talking about <x,y,z> that you or I could code in 10 minutes?" Yes, we were. I coded it and showed my managers and so forth. I was completely ignored, and the meetings rolled on. In a place like that, there are so many people that have job titles that have nothing to do with "getting it done", which in a funny way makes them less interested in getting it done. Their job is to analyze, plan, document, process map, etc. etc. so that's what they're going to do, no matter how trivial the thing is.

AndyNemmity 11y ago
Exactly! I would argue it creates MORE red tape and work to do that, than less. I've done it, I've seen it, it actually makes your life worse, not better.
- grecy 11y ago
  When I stopped trying to make that place better (I'm banging my head against the wall) and started just going with the flow, I knew it was time to leave.
Gratsby 11y ago
Ha! My favorite Telco story was when I was hired to come in and do performance improvements on an enterprise application. Day 1 I figured out what the problem was, and I could have the solution in place by the end of the day. The manager who was in charge of the application thought that a quick solution would make him look bad. I was explicitly ordered to sit on my thumbs for six weeks. The thing is, once you know the solution every other action is senseless. There are people who are perfectly happy being a billable body for a living. I'm not one of them.

dzhiurgis 11y ago

Actual developers do bot go to these meetings. But if you actually did that, you'd be told off by your manager for wasting resources.

AndyNemmity 11y ago
Sometimes they do.... and they will stop going immediately if they don't follow the script. You either understand and enable the other people to accomplish what they want to accomplish, or you're not being invited ever again.

blantonl 11y ago

Project managers don't spend 1290 hours to plan a 1 hour implementation. If you did that, your contract would be terminated and the PMs would find someone who knows how to turn that 1 hour prototype implementation into 3000 hours of work.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

Godel_unicode 11y ago

They would probably get in trouble for performing work which the government representative (Contracting Officer) had not authorized. The larger issue is that the government is not setup to move quickly, and for the majority of things the government does oversight is a good thing. That level of process does make it hard to do things like this efficiently, but it's all about trade-offs.

AndyNemmity 11y ago

This happens all the time. People aren't stupid, and often do this. I will seriously answer your question of what happens. They will be told to shut up, because they haven't listened to the requirements. No one will want to hear it on that call. They will be told it's the wrong audience. If they push forward, they'll have a conversation with a lot of people after the meeting about how they aren't being helpful. They'll be told to have a separate meeting with others to validate it. Then in that meeting, those people will rip it to shreds, and indicate that it needs to conform to X Y Z... The PM will then work with you to go through when what actions will be done... Then they'll schedule new meetings. On and on.. Nothing will change. I've tried it, and seen it tried. It doesn't work. You go through the process, or you create even more bullshit red-tape for yourself, and you're seen as a loose cannon no one trusts.