4 ms·

So what about scientific textbooks? Not undergraduate ones, but the really narrow topic ones that are used in graduate classes as reference materials for profe

So what about scientific textbooks? Not undergraduate ones, but the really narrow topic ones that are used in graduate classes as reference materials for professionals. They're frequently written by author(s) who are partly to fully funded on government grants, and they too are very expensive, as some journal articles are. Are these fair game for distribution on Sci-Hub too?

j2kun 11y ago
I don't think anyone who has written such a book has ever made a significant profit from it. The attitude among researchers in my field, at least, is that all such books are a labor of love. With this in mind, it sounds like a perfect use case for sci-hub.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > I don't think anyone who has written such a book has ever made a significant profit from it. The attitude among researchers in my field, at least, is that all such books are a labor of love. I don't think it's necessarily so altruistic - there are a number of benefits to writing a book that go beyond the monetary incentive. That said, yes, these authors almost never even cover their own expenses (opportunity cost) when writing these books, let alone turn a profit. The "real" profits[0] go to the publishers. [0] if any! Publishers operate like venture firms in this regard - they make most of their money off of the blockbuster hits, and there's a long tail of books that are unprofitable or very close to unprofitable.
  - ig1 11y ago
    > Publishers operate like venture firms in this regard - they make most of their money off of the blockbuster hits, and there's a long tail of books that are unprofitable or very close to unprofitable. Not really true for specialist academic work publishers, they don't (and shouldn't) expect books to become hits, rather they operate a volume game. A specialist book might sell 200-500 copies so to make profit they essentially have to publish a large volume of books at a high-price point. A typical editor at such a firm will typically have to publish 1-2 books a week to make the economics work out. It doesn't really apply for journal publishing either although at most publishers more establish journals will typically subsidize the the newer ones (a new journal can easily take 5-10 years to reach break-even point).
    - chimeracoder 11y ago
      > Not really true for specialist academic work publishers, they don't (and shouldn't) expect books to become hits It is true for academic publishers as well; the difference is that 'hit' is qualified differently (something that becomes a standard textbook for undergraduates, even in a specialty niche - or at a higher level, something that becomes commonly cited enough that it is used by a large (relatively) number of academics, libraries, etc.)
      - ig1 11y ago
        The market for undergraduate textbooks is completely different from that of post-grad level specialist texts. The economics are very different due to the fact that the people making purchase decisions (i.e course directors, etc.) are different from the people who pay (students).
        chimeracoder 11y ago
        > The market for undergraduate textbooks is completely different from that of post-grad level specialist texts. The economics are very different due to the fact that the people making purchase decisions (i.e course directors, etc.) are different from the people who pay (students). Yes, I am aware of that.
- mSparks 11y ago
  Among the academics I work with there is general disgust with the likes of Elsevier. Uni pays them to do research. Then has to pay again to Elsevier et al to use it for teaching. Swartz created the push for open access (and bad reporting that this ars article doesn't mention the mass resignations at Elsevier over that issue as far as I can see) So this site is only a good thing in my opinion.
  - cinquemb 11y ago
    Lingua's Editors & Editorial Board Members: http://www.aplu.org/news-and-media/News/aplu-statement-on-resignation-of-linguas-editors--editorial-board-members-in-protest-of-elseviers-pricing-policies http://www.aplu.org/news-and-media/News/aplu-statement-on-re... Elsevier response: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/addressing-the-resignation-of-the-lingua-editorial-board https://www.elsevier.com/connect/addressing-the-resignation-...
    - mSparks 11y ago
      You see. Right there: ... The article publishing charge at Lingua for open access articles is $1,800 USD. The editors had requested a price of 400 euros, an APC that is not sustainable. .. Morons are as good as claiming Wikipedia is not sustainable because they don't charge editors 1800$ to edit an article...
- TheGorramBatman 11y ago
  There are several textbook writers who have made significant profits from their books. James Stewart of Stewart's calculus fame, for example: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/04/the_house_that_math_built.html http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/04/the_house_that_ma...
  - dalke 11y ago
    The qualifier "such a book" referred to the original description "Not undergraduate ones, but the really narrow topic ones that are used in graduate classes as reference materials for professionals". That excludes Stewart's calculus, and many others.
nhaliday 11y ago
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ is a pretty good source (also Russia-based). I'm not sure whether it covers all textbooks of the more obscure kind, e.g., the ones typically referred to as "monographs," but it has worked for graduate classes in the past.
- liviu- 11y ago
  Or just http://libgen.io/ http://libgen.io/ for a more friendly URL.
jkyle 11y ago
Ostensibly, these publications are written in addition to the services rendered for grants. If an author received a grant specifically to write a book on a topic, then I'd say yes. This is rarely, if ever, the case. With research, however, it is the norm not the exception that they are paid for or subsidized through some form of public funding.
userbinator 11y ago
That's more in the realm of LibGen, which is related but not exactly the same site.

j2kun 11y ago

I don't think anyone who has written such a book has ever made a significant profit from it. The attitude among researchers in my field, at least, is that all such books are a labor of love. With this in mind, it sounds like a perfect use case for sci-hub.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> I don't think anyone who has written such a book has ever made a significant profit from it. The attitude among researchers in my field, at least, is that all such books are a labor of love. I don't think it's necessarily so altruistic - there are a number of benefits to writing a book that go beyond the monetary incentive. That said, yes, these authors almost never even cover their own expenses (opportunity cost) when writing these books, let alone turn a profit. The "real" profits[0] go to the publishers. [0] if any! Publishers operate like venture firms in this regard - they make most of their money off of the blockbuster hits, and there's a long tail of books that are unprofitable or very close to unprofitable.
- ig1 11y ago
  > Publishers operate like venture firms in this regard - they make most of their money off of the blockbuster hits, and there's a long tail of books that are unprofitable or very close to unprofitable. Not really true for specialist academic work publishers, they don't (and shouldn't) expect books to become hits, rather they operate a volume game. A specialist book might sell 200-500 copies so to make profit they essentially have to publish a large volume of books at a high-price point. A typical editor at such a firm will typically have to publish 1-2 books a week to make the economics work out. It doesn't really apply for journal publishing either although at most publishers more establish journals will typically subsidize the the newer ones (a new journal can easily take 5-10 years to reach break-even point).
  - chimeracoder 11y ago
    > Not really true for specialist academic work publishers, they don't (and shouldn't) expect books to become hits It is true for academic publishers as well; the difference is that 'hit' is qualified differently (something that becomes a standard textbook for undergraduates, even in a specialty niche - or at a higher level, something that becomes commonly cited enough that it is used by a large (relatively) number of academics, libraries, etc.)
    - ig1 11y ago
      The market for undergraduate textbooks is completely different from that of post-grad level specialist texts. The economics are very different due to the fact that the people making purchase decisions (i.e course directors, etc.) are different from the people who pay (students).
      - chimeracoder 11y ago
        > The market for undergraduate textbooks is completely different from that of post-grad level specialist texts. The economics are very different due to the fact that the people making purchase decisions (i.e course directors, etc.) are different from the people who pay (students). Yes, I am aware of that.
mSparks 11y ago
Among the academics I work with there is general disgust with the likes of Elsevier. Uni pays them to do research. Then has to pay again to Elsevier et al to use it for teaching. Swartz created the push for open access (and bad reporting that this ars article doesn't mention the mass resignations at Elsevier over that issue as far as I can see) So this site is only a good thing in my opinion.
- cinquemb 11y ago
  Lingua's Editors & Editorial Board Members: http://www.aplu.org/news-and-media/News/aplu-statement-on-resignation-of-linguas-editors--editorial-board-members-in-protest-of-elseviers-pricing-policies http://www.aplu.org/news-and-media/News/aplu-statement-on-re... Elsevier response: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/addressing-the-resignation-of-the-lingua-editorial-board https://www.elsevier.com/connect/addressing-the-resignation-...
  - mSparks 11y ago
    You see. Right there: ... The article publishing charge at Lingua for open access articles is $1,800 USD. The editors had requested a price of 400 euros, an APC that is not sustainable. .. Morons are as good as claiming Wikipedia is not sustainable because they don't charge editors 1800$ to edit an article...
TheGorramBatman 11y ago
There are several textbook writers who have made significant profits from their books. James Stewart of Stewart's calculus fame, for example: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/04/the_house_that_math_built.html http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/04/the_house_that_ma...
- dalke 11y ago
  The qualifier "such a book" referred to the original description "Not undergraduate ones, but the really narrow topic ones that are used in graduate classes as reference materials for professionals". That excludes Stewart's calculus, and many others.

nhaliday 11y ago

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ is a pretty good source (also Russia-based). I'm not sure whether it covers all textbooks of the more obscure kind, e.g., the ones typically referred to as "monographs," but it has worked for graduate classes in the past.

liviu- 11y ago
Or just http://libgen.io/ http://libgen.io/ for a more friendly URL.

jkyle 11y ago

Ostensibly, these publications are written in addition to the services rendered for grants. If an author received a grant specifically to write a book on a topic, then I'd say yes. This is rarely, if ever, the case. With research, however, it is the norm not the exception that they are paid for or subsidized through some form of public funding.

userbinator 11y ago

That's more in the realm of LibGen, which is related but not exactly the same site.