8 ms·

Panama just passed compliance with FATF (February 2016) and it's a message that their political leader/law firm owner/world's largest money launderer (his name

by wyck 11y ago

Panama just passed compliance with FATF (February 2016) and it's a message that their political leader/law firm owner/world's largest money launderer (his name is in the OP's title) is no longer open for business after decades of being the go-to place for hidden $$$. http://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/#Panama http://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/#Panama "The FATF recognised that Algeria, Angola and Panama have made significant progress in improving their regimes to combat money laundering and terrorist financing and will therefore no longer be subject to the FATF’s monitoring process." Also let's not forgot about the CIA's asset Noriega and decades of money laundering which started all this, including recently trying to wipe cloud data off a Nevada company logs. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article69729322.html http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/articl... tl;dr - This is a multi-state G20 planned leak and not the work of some moral insider or hacker, the money laundering world is becoming a difficult place for outsiders. Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
raverbashing 11y ago
> This is a multi-state G20 planned leak and not the work of some moral insider or hacker, the money laundering world is becoming a difficult place and for good reason. I agree And of course those in the know are moving to hide their assets somewhere else
- wyck 11y ago
  The heads up was given a long time ago, you won't find their names in the leak, it's kinda funny Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson is being outed, I guess he didn't get the memo on account of his recent actions.
  - sievebrain 11y ago
    The leak is of historical documents dating back decades, not a snapshot of current setups. So I don't see why that'd affect anything. I really doubt this is some sort of official leak though. Governments hate leaks of all kinds.
    - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
      >Governments hate leaks of all kinds. Not in the UK. Leaks and "off the record briefings" are practically official government policy. To me this looks like a rather stupid attempt to promote regime change in Russia. Putin was weakened by the low oil price, and now this has all the signs of a bizarre poli-sci undergraduate plot to push him over the edge. I'll change my mind if a list of significant British and US pols with Panamanian accounts appears - because any suggestion that there aren't any is frankly risible.
      - elemenopy 11y ago
        Per the Guardian[1]: > Six members of the House of Lords, three former Conservative MPs and dozens of donors to UK political parties have had offshore assets. I expect we'll hear more about this in coming days and weeks. I don't really understand this line of thinking. Big leak + "fancy website graphics" = vast Western conspiracy? Sounds less like insightful analysis and more like the kind of denial I'd expect from RT. 1. http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/the-panama-papers-how-the-worlds-rich-and-famous-hide-their-money-offshore http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/the-panama-paper...
        TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
        The reason I'm thinking "vast Western conspiracy" is that you would think, as a common sense point, that when something like this appears Western journalists would be more interested in Western politicians first. But apparently not. I find that strange. I also find it strange that more people don't find it strange - because it's always been obvious to me that Putin is a completely generic oligarch crook, and I really don't understand why anyone would be surprised that he acts like one. But here's an interesting fact - public opinion management has a long history in the West, just as it does in all other big states. It's been tracked by journalists and academics, discussed in Senate committees, and explored in books. It's a long way from being either hostile state propaganda or weirdo conspiracy nonsense. I'm quite prepared to believe that a lot of HN readers haven't taken the time to familiarise themselves with that history, but that doesn't change the historical record. And if absolutely no US pols are implicated in this leak, I'll continue to find that curious and strange, no matter how many downvotes I get here. As for UK pols - we'll see exactly what that means in practice. Most people here know that Cameron's father made his money as a tax consultant to the privileged, and that our beloved Chancellor's family business never pays tax. It would certainly be interesting, timely, and welcome if other members of the government were outed as avoiding significant sums. But until more facts appear, it's too early to tell how this will play out.
discreteevent 11y ago
"Real leaks don't have fancy websites" How something looks. It really is the shallowest form of dismissal, since the days of the village gossips.
- wyck 11y ago
  Your missing the point, it's clear they this leak is planned and not someone just uploading a bunch of files. People don't seem to understand what I mean by the above^. The question is would it not be better to dump the entire data set to the public, instead of it being funnelled by reporters?
  - elemenopy 11y ago
    > it's clear they this leak is planned But you haven't produced any real evidence for this claim. The ICIJ has co-ordinated the reporting on the leak, sure; but that's not the same as claiming the leak itself was in bad faith, part of some wider state-sponsored conspiracy from G20 nations, etc.
  - wukerplank 11y ago
    Planned by whom? To what end? Do you have any information to substantiate this claim?
    - wyck 11y ago
      I'm referencing the fact that some leaks you get the whole enchilada and it's up to you or the media to sift though. In the case it's a leak which is being funnelled by the reporters. Maybe this is because of legal reasons, I have no idea, but would it not be better they just dumped the whole data set onto the web?
      - k-mcgrady 11y ago
        Did you have this same position with the Snowden leaks? Dump it on the web and it lacks credibility. Filter it through journalists who can use their resellers to make sense of it and the public gets to hear the important repercussions of the leak instead of having to try and figure it all out themselves.
elemenopy 11y ago
> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. I don't understand this. Don't newspapers always make stories that they can tell are important more engaging for the reader? Here's a cute Guardian flash interactive from Cablegate, [1] and another nice Washington Post interactive on the same story. [2] Here's a really fancy six-part interactive from the Guardian in the wake of the Snowden files. [3] Whenever the media publishes leaks they will make similar things, even when Western governments act strenuously to prevent publication, as in the case of Cablegate and Snowden. How does a well-presented story indicate anything other than the media thought this was a story which was important and in the public interest? 1. http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-... 2. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/wikileaks-cable-analysis/?tid=grpromo http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/wikileak... 3. http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1 http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/sno...
r3bl 11y ago
> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. Yes they do and you're welcome. Sincerely, somebody who worked on this for way too long and practically hasn't left the office this entire weekend.
- wyck 11y ago
  I'm not critiquing the website, it looks great to be honest. It's comes across a little odd when you target just a small amount of people, it almost seems like a sales pitch. The journalists need to be more transparent about the data and why these individuals were picked first, and how the data release is going to work. I hope for your sake you don't have to vectorize everyone mentioned in the data.
  - r3bl 11y ago
    Worth pointing out: this is, in no way, done by a single media organization. This is a collaborative effort of ~107 news organizations from all over the world, and you can be sure that behind each of them there's a small dedicated tech team that worked tirelessly on making this thing look pretty. Because this is such a huge collaborative effort involving over 300 journalists from god knows how many countries, we barely managed to set an embargo until 8 PM (CEST). An hour before that, there were literally less than 10 tweets using #panamapapers. Now, there's over half a million. And it's been just seven hours since I have started the tweet wall in our office! From this point on, I believe that every media organization is going to focus on its own region, although I cannot guarantee that. After all, my job was to make the website look pretty. I had the honor of reading some of the stories before anyone else while I was preparing them for the website (and I will have the same honor again in ~5-6 hours), but that's about it.
    - return0 11y ago
      So, how much popcorn should i buy?
      - 11y ago
jjawssd 11y ago
> This is a multi-state G20 planned leak I don't see any incentive to self-destruct
than 11y ago
Real bugs don't have fancy websites. http://heartbleed.com http://heartbleed.com

by wyck 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

raverbashing 11y ago

> This is a multi-state G20 planned leak and not the work of some moral insider or hacker, the money laundering world is becoming a difficult place and for good reason. I agree And of course those in the know are moving to hide their assets somewhere else

wyck 11y ago
The heads up was given a long time ago, you won't find their names in the leak, it's kinda funny Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson is being outed, I guess he didn't get the memo on account of his recent actions.
- sievebrain 11y ago
  The leak is of historical documents dating back decades, not a snapshot of current setups. So I don't see why that'd affect anything. I really doubt this is some sort of official leak though. Governments hate leaks of all kinds.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    >Governments hate leaks of all kinds. Not in the UK. Leaks and "off the record briefings" are practically official government policy. To me this looks like a rather stupid attempt to promote regime change in Russia. Putin was weakened by the low oil price, and now this has all the signs of a bizarre poli-sci undergraduate plot to push him over the edge. I'll change my mind if a list of significant British and US pols with Panamanian accounts appears - because any suggestion that there aren't any is frankly risible.
    - elemenopy 11y ago
      Per the Guardian[1]: > Six members of the House of Lords, three former Conservative MPs and dozens of donors to UK political parties have had offshore assets. I expect we'll hear more about this in coming days and weeks. I don't really understand this line of thinking. Big leak + "fancy website graphics" = vast Western conspiracy? Sounds less like insightful analysis and more like the kind of denial I'd expect from RT. 1. http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/the-panama-papers-how-the-worlds-rich-and-famous-hide-their-money-offshore http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/the-panama-paper...
      - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
        The reason I'm thinking "vast Western conspiracy" is that you would think, as a common sense point, that when something like this appears Western journalists would be more interested in Western politicians first. But apparently not. I find that strange. I also find it strange that more people don't find it strange - because it's always been obvious to me that Putin is a completely generic oligarch crook, and I really don't understand why anyone would be surprised that he acts like one. But here's an interesting fact - public opinion management has a long history in the West, just as it does in all other big states. It's been tracked by journalists and academics, discussed in Senate committees, and explored in books. It's a long way from being either hostile state propaganda or weirdo conspiracy nonsense. I'm quite prepared to believe that a lot of HN readers haven't taken the time to familiarise themselves with that history, but that doesn't change the historical record. And if absolutely no US pols are implicated in this leak, I'll continue to find that curious and strange, no matter how many downvotes I get here. As for UK pols - we'll see exactly what that means in practice. Most people here know that Cameron's father made his money as a tax consultant to the privileged, and that our beloved Chancellor's family business never pays tax. It would certainly be interesting, timely, and welcome if other members of the government were outed as avoiding significant sums. But until more facts appear, it's too early to tell how this will play out.

discreteevent 11y ago

"Real leaks don't have fancy websites" How something looks. It really is the shallowest form of dismissal, since the days of the village gossips.

wyck 11y ago
Your missing the point, it's clear they this leak is planned and not someone just uploading a bunch of files. People don't seem to understand what I mean by the above^. The question is would it not be better to dump the entire data set to the public, instead of it being funnelled by reporters?
- elemenopy 11y ago
  > it's clear they this leak is planned But you haven't produced any real evidence for this claim. The ICIJ has co-ordinated the reporting on the leak, sure; but that's not the same as claiming the leak itself was in bad faith, part of some wider state-sponsored conspiracy from G20 nations, etc.
- wukerplank 11y ago
  Planned by whom? To what end? Do you have any information to substantiate this claim?
  - wyck 11y ago
    I'm referencing the fact that some leaks you get the whole enchilada and it's up to you or the media to sift though. In the case it's a leak which is being funnelled by the reporters. Maybe this is because of legal reasons, I have no idea, but would it not be better they just dumped the whole data set onto the web?
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      Did you have this same position with the Snowden leaks? Dump it on the web and it lacks credibility. Filter it through journalists who can use their resellers to make sense of it and the public gets to hear the important repercussions of the leak instead of having to try and figure it all out themselves.

elemenopy 11y ago

> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. I don't understand this. Don't newspapers always make stories that they can tell are important more engaging for the reader? Here's a cute Guardian flash interactive from Cablegate, [1] and another nice Washington Post interactive on the same story. [2] Here's a really fancy six-part interactive from the Guardian in the wake of the Snowden files. [3] Whenever the media publishes leaks they will make similar things, even when Western governments act strenuously to prevent publication, as in the case of Cablegate and Snowden. How does a well-presented story indicate anything other than the media thought this was a story which was important and in the public interest? 1. http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-... 2. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/wikileaks-cable-analysis/?tid=grpromo http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/wikileak... 3. http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1 http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/sno...

r3bl 11y ago

> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. Yes they do and you're welcome. Sincerely, somebody who worked on this for way too long and practically hasn't left the office this entire weekend.

wyck 11y ago
I'm not critiquing the website, it looks great to be honest. It's comes across a little odd when you target just a small amount of people, it almost seems like a sales pitch. The journalists need to be more transparent about the data and why these individuals were picked first, and how the data release is going to work. I hope for your sake you don't have to vectorize everyone mentioned in the data.
- r3bl 11y ago
  Worth pointing out: this is, in no way, done by a single media organization. This is a collaborative effort of ~107 news organizations from all over the world, and you can be sure that behind each of them there's a small dedicated tech team that worked tirelessly on making this thing look pretty. Because this is such a huge collaborative effort involving over 300 journalists from god knows how many countries, we barely managed to set an embargo until 8 PM (CEST). An hour before that, there were literally less than 10 tweets using #panamapapers. Now, there's over half a million. And it's been just seven hours since I have started the tweet wall in our office! From this point on, I believe that every media organization is going to focus on its own region, although I cannot guarantee that. After all, my job was to make the website look pretty. I had the honor of reading some of the stories before anyone else while I was preparing them for the website (and I will have the same honor again in ~5-6 hours), but that's about it.
  - return0 11y ago
    So, how much popcorn should i buy?
    - 11y ago

jjawssd 11y ago

> This is a multi-state G20 planned leak I don't see any incentive to self-destruct

than 11y ago

Real bugs don't have fancy websites. http://heartbleed.com http://heartbleed.com