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I worked with some ThoughtWorks consultants a few years ago, and I would say the author here is probably a diamond in the rough. This was a very good read. Tho

I worked with some ThoughtWorks consultants a few years ago, and I would say the author here is probably a diamond in the rough. This was a very good read. ThoughtWorks needs to read this and particularly heed point #9. The primary goal of theirs during our month—or so—long consultation seemed to be to force a team of 40+ developers down a rigid and dogmatic path of TDD. They also advocated pair programming, but a lot of us (I'm extrapolating "a lot" from the unanimity of the few I was close to and talked to about this) felt like they were really just winging it; like they were apprentice developers barely learning the concepts of TDD and pair programming at the same time they were charging to purportedly teach us. It was a frustrating and fruitless endeavor that taught our team basically one thing; don't work with ThoughtWorks again.

davidrupp 11y ago
Ex-ThoughtWorker here. Pat is indeed a respected voice in this space, even amongst ThoughtWorkers, but he is not the only diamond. I learned pair programming and TDD from many colleagues over three years and four major projects. In all that time, there was exactly one individual whom I thought was a waste of space. On the whole, ThoughtWorks' typical approach to agile (note: lower-case 'a') development is firmly grounded in the pragmatics of what used to be called Extreme Programming, not Scrum-type dogma. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in your brief engagement with TW. I believe it to be atypical, and I hope you'll have occasion to reconsider your -- not un-dogmatic -- conclusion.
solarengineer 11y ago
Pat is indeed a diamond, though there are plenty others to keep him company. As for your experiences with ThoughtWorkers, do bear in mind that at the end of the day, everyone is a human who could make mistakes. It appears from your experience note that the month-long engagement could have been structured better.
plinkplonk 11y ago
(Due Disclosure: Ex ThoughtWorker) Pat is certainly very sharp and thinks deeply about issues. So are many other ThoughtWorkers, he is not alone. But otoh, TW also has a minority of dogmatic agile/TDD etc people for whom such practices are close to religion and any other approach is blasphemy. It seems you might have run across some of them. The best way for a client to use ThoughtWorks is to get their team to work on a chunk of software, keep them from switching taleted developers out for more junior folks, and add a couple of client devs to that team for a few months at a time. This ensures high quality and osmosis of practices without the kind of high pressure conversion tactics you seem to have experienced. ThoughtWorks is a great company and has many talented and thoughtful devs, but if you are paying them you have to pay attention to how they work and not let a few bad apples run amok and destroy your team morale. Just my 2 cents.

davidrupp 11y ago

Ex-ThoughtWorker here. Pat is indeed a respected voice in this space, even amongst ThoughtWorkers, but he is not the only diamond. I learned pair programming and TDD from many colleagues over three years and four major projects. In all that time, there was exactly one individual whom I thought was a waste of space. On the whole, ThoughtWorks' typical approach to agile (note: lower-case 'a') development is firmly grounded in the pragmatics of what used to be called Extreme Programming, not Scrum-type dogma. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in your brief engagement with TW. I believe it to be atypical, and I hope you'll have occasion to reconsider your -- not un-dogmatic -- conclusion.

solarengineer 11y ago

Pat is indeed a diamond, though there are plenty others to keep him company. As for your experiences with ThoughtWorkers, do bear in mind that at the end of the day, everyone is a human who could make mistakes. It appears from your experience note that the month-long engagement could have been structured better.

plinkplonk 11y ago

(Due Disclosure: Ex ThoughtWorker) Pat is certainly very sharp and thinks deeply about issues. So are many other ThoughtWorkers, he is not alone. But otoh, TW also has a minority of dogmatic agile/TDD etc people for whom such practices are close to religion and any other approach is blasphemy. It seems you might have run across some of them. The best way for a client to use ThoughtWorks is to get their team to work on a chunk of software, keep them from switching taleted developers out for more junior folks, and add a couple of client devs to that team for a few months at a time. This ensures high quality and osmosis of practices without the kind of high pressure conversion tactics you seem to have experienced. ThoughtWorks is a great company and has many talented and thoughtful devs, but if you are paying them you have to pay attention to how they work and not let a few bad apples run amok and destroy your team morale. Just my 2 cents.