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Hi. I'm someone's mom, and both of us understand this. When you use mothers as a metonym for people who don't understand technology, think about who you are ass
by lizzard 11y ago
Hi. I'm someone's mom, and both of us understand this. When you use mothers as a metonym for people who don't understand technology, think about who you are assuming is your audience, and who are you are excluding and insulting.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>who are you are excluding and insulting. Change it to Dad then. I'm someone's Dad, have a Dad, and none of us feel excluded or insulted. It's a figure of speech.
- SNvD7vEJ 11y agoLOL, this is one ignorant defense.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>LOL, this is one ignorant defense. So, saying you're a Mom and offended is a valid argument, but that you're a Dad and not offended isn't? Yep, that sounds about right for one of these arguments.
- dllthomas 11y agoSaying you are a mom (or dad) and are offended is a valid argument that offence is occurring. Saying you are a dad (or mom) and are not offended is not a valid argument that offence is not occurring. Sounds right for any rational argument. Of course, having established that offence is occurring, it still leaves open what the appropriate response is.
- Blahah 11y agoYou don't speak on behalf of dads generally. I'm a dad, and would be insulted if the word chosen was dad. Singling out some group as symbolic of something negative (in this case, ignorance about technical matters), is unnecessary and likely to offend.
- bcook 11y agoWhat's offensive about being ignorant of technical matters?
- tptacek 11y agoObviously, because that creates the presumption that the thoughts and opinions of dads (or moms, or grandfathers, or whatever) regarding technology can be dismissed. Ask a simple question, get a simple answer.
- bcook 11y agoI always thought a statement of someone's ignorance was more or less a statement of fact, vs questioning someone's abilities or intelligence, which are considered insults. Whether the implication was intended to be negative... I dunno. Sorry about my sub-par manners today.
- smt88 11y ago"Figure of speech" isn't a defense against something being harmful. "That's very white of you" used to be an expression in the South in the US, where "white" meant "good". (It's now changed to me, "That's very Christian of you.")
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- carbocation 11y agoI agree with you. Thinking of alternative phrases, perhaps "neophyte," "uninitiated," or "a smart child" would work.
- evook 11y agoWho cares?
- clbrook 11y agoI do. I was pleased when I opened the comment section to see this as the top comment. I want to live in a world where being kind, respectful, understanding, and caring are the highest of virtues. In that world, hopefully all people will work toward working together to understand others and appreciate our many wonderful differences instead of insulting them, even in a micro-aggression, this might be funny, yet deprecating sort of way. Although I personally don't often spend much time being offended by these culturally accepted deprecating statements, I have recently started to wonder if it is contributing toward the public policies that attempt to marginalize and discriminate against any group of people. Moms build things. Girls build things. Women build things. I build things.
- evook 11y ago> I want to live in a world where being kind, respectful, understanding, and caring are the highest of virtues. That's cool and stuff, but the humankind as a huge organism doesn't work like this and will never as long as we don't start genetically modify humans at scale to be engineered that way when hatched. We're still just "animals" or low-power carbon based computers if you prefer that phrasing.
- bcook 11y agoDoes being kind & understanding mean allowing someone to make a joke about you? I often allow jokes at my expense if the intent was not malicious. Also, I perceived the joke to be making fun of the elderly, not women. Honestly, you post seems like you were primed & ready to be offended by the slightest thing, which has more negative social impact than the light-hearted title of the linked article.
- clbrook 11y agoInteresting. I think it is unlikely that most people would consider me easily offended. If it wasn't historically pervasive, yet false to declare that women are not tech savvy, I likely would not have said anything, however, this is a technology focused community and thus it seems relevant to not promote that unfortunate typecast. I was unaware that Moms were considered elderly - I had my first child at 25, is that old? I guess that's another case in point why not to use 'Mom' in this sense, it comes off insulting to some and also is perceived to mean multiple, possibly unintended things.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- bcook 11y agoYou are offended by sexism? I only see ageism.
- smt88 11y agoSuggesting that moms aren't tech savvy is not only harmful and bigoted, it's also misinformed. Many vital, important moms were pioneers in computing. My mom taught me how to use a computer and write code, and she was self-taught. Part of the implication here is that the people who are more likely to handle domestic work are likely less intelligent. That's bullshit.
- bcook 11y agoMy mom is not tech savvy. Can I get your permission to laugh at the link's title or do I need to be wildly offended?
- clbrook 11y agoI think it seems appropriate to laugh (especially since it pertains in your particular life) and at the same time understand and appreciate what sort of societal stereotypes it perpetuates, which might then contribute toward less women desiring to participate in technology communities.
- bcook 11y agoPersonally, I am much more bothered by the caustic atmosphere created by the overly Politically Correct backlash when an insignificant implication is made...
- tptacek 11y agoThe environment is caustic in large part because you're pouring lye onto it. Someone took a moment to explain --- very correctly --- that using "mom" as a metonym for "technically naive" is inaccurate, dismissive, and exclusionary. That comment didn't accuse anyone of intending to do any of that. It simply pointed out the outcome of the wording. The very same comment could have been written about "grandfather" and ageism. Nobody asked you to be offended, or to take offense.
- locopati 11y ago
- rewqfdsa 11y agoThanks, lizzard, for making me aware of an idiom that triggers people like you. I'm going to make sure to use it at least one per day over the next week. I always appreciate good tips like this.