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Why metadata is bad – 3 minute video your Mom will understand
- rll 11y agoWhy change the headline to a blatantly sexist one?
- jhall1468 11y agoI doubt you'd have said the same thing if it was a 3 minutes video your dad would understand. So who's the sexist one?
- rll 11y agoThat made no sense at all.
- jhall1468 11y agoIt wasn't about gender. It was about "incompetent about technology." Your mom, grandma, dad, grandpa, dumb cousin or incompetent friend would all work as well. You made it about gender.
- rll 11y agoDon't you see that you just proved the point? You read "your mother" and you understood "incompetent about technology." That is the sexist stereotype we get irritated by.
- tdkl 11y agoThe point was about metadata. It's modern to cry about other feelings nowadays though.
- jhall1468 11y agoExcept I would have made the exact same assumption about "your father". The idea is that our parents, grandparents or whatever are technologically incompetent. It had nothing to do with gender. Again, the only sexist thus far, is you.
- gemma 11y agoIt's heartening to see this thread land so solidly on the intersection of sexism and ageism. You're right, assuming older generations are technically incompetent is wrong, mean, and unnecessary--just like assuming the same thing about women. When you combine the two with phrases like "so simple your mom could understand", you end up with a big bucket of nope. My mom has a STEM degree, and her mom had a bleeding edge Thinkpad when the rest of my family was married to a beige box. My dad is a system administrator, and his dad is a chemical engineer. I have a postgraduate degree in software engineering. To assume any of us are technically incompetent because of our age or gender is insulting, and exclusionary. Thanks for pointing that out.
- gluelogic 11y agoIf your experience was anything like mine, then you grew up regularly handling technology (fixing computers, hooking up VCRs, etc.) for and explaining it to people older than you. That's the stereotype at play in the title--old person won't understand tech. It would be quite different (and have a totally different effect) if the title said "3 minute video even a girl will understand"
- DanBC 11y agoGoogle searching shows very many more hits for "your mother would understand" and "your grandmother would understand" than for father / grandfather / grandpa / etc.
- jhall1468 11y agoThe number of query results from a google search aren't evidence of anything except that your argument is weak enough that you couldn't find actual evidence.
- NegatioN 11y agoSo your goal by making people not write titles like this is to completely exterminate people's connotation of it? We all agree sexism is bad, and there are real issues to overcome in all countries, but sometimes I would feel more supportive of the case if it focused on what really is unfair, and a hindrance to a gender.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>We all agree sexism is bad, and there are real issues to overcome in all countries, but sometimes I would feel more supportive of the case if it focused on what really is unfair, and a hindrance to a gender. Thank you. This is so indicative of the internet generation, where talking about something ridiculous and missing the point is seen as actually doing something. Look where the downvotes are occurring; every comment that doesn't think the title is a big deal. God forbid someone's opinion is different. Remember that when this crowd expresses how great and open to debate HackerNews is as a community.
- DanBC 11y ago> You made it about gender. No, the long history of the phrase used to stereotype someone who knows nothing about technology made it about gender. EDIT: pointing out that the phrase is sexist and unwelcome is a good thing.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>EDIT: pointing out that the phrase is sexist and unwelcome is a good thing. I love how you felt the need to clarify your comment to ensure you're on the right side of the HN hivemind. Gotta earn them upvotes!
- jhall1468 11y ago> No, the long history of the phrase used to stereotype someone who knows nothing about technology made it about gender. No, it was age ageism. But the STEM field has an enormous gender gap so now we're actively looking for every single sentence that might be gender-biased and pretending that our feelings are facts. This is just another example of having a hammer makes everything look like a nail. The title was very clearly biased... that "older" generation can't understand modern technologies. But we had plenty of people here to defend women, even when they don't need it.
- icebraining 11y agoJust to be clear, you're accusing someone else of sexism based on a baseless assumption?
- adsfqwop 11y agoIt's not "blatant". It's a common figure of speech. Get over it. Do we have to have SJW's infiltrating Hacker News now too.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>Do we have to have SJW's infiltrating Hacker News now too. HackerNews is very sensitive when it comes to sexism, but not so much when it comes to H1Bs or outsourcing or China. It's embarrassing that the purpose of the video is overlooked for PC.
- icebraining 11y agoAnd yet all your comments have been on the reactions to the video, and not about the video itself. Physician, heal thyself! The reality is that the video is not very interesting, really. The content is well known around here, and even simplified explanations have been done before. There's nothing much to say about it.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoIts a common feature of HN that we don't condone sexism, racism, hate speech etc. A lazy stereotype of dumb women in an article title is not cool here.
- zo1 11y ago>"Its a common feature of HN that we don't condone sexism, racism, hate speech etc." And yet last time there was mention of "bro-culture" (i.e. anti-male, anti-techie), I don't recall seeing anywhere near this sort of reaction.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoBecause criticizing those in authority is very different from the opposite. The tired old dead horse of "its technically also racism to criticize the plantation master!" is an unworthy argument.
- tehmillhouse 11y agoThe video's nice and all, but I'd appreciate if people would stop using my Mom as a stand-in for "person who is not competent with technology". Also, did they really mistake the chrome logo for the google logo?
- hmahncke 11y agoYes. My Mom was an analyst for the CIA and helped win the Cold War. This phrase is silly.
- ChristianBundy 11y agoYeah, they used an old Facebook logo, a very old Twitter logo, and a Chrome logo instead of Google. Maybe they've never heard of brand guidelines?
- viiralvx 11y agoCouldn't you just have said, "3 minute video that anybody can understand." Rather than stereotype people's mothers as technically incompetent?
- tdkl 11y agoStereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if there wasn't a grain of truth in them. If we take a sample of N>1000 mothers, I bet my money more then 50% would fall under this "stereotype". Is this democratic enough to suit as an argument ?
- dcwca 11y agoStereotypes perpetuate anti patterns and facilitate discrimination and should not be embraced or defended.
- munin 11y agoif anyone is going to viscerally and immediately understand the impact of de-anonyimzation and the importance of privacy, it will be a woman.
- mynewtb 11y agoNah, it will be a black transgendered immigrant at least. Get with the times instead of perpetuating sexist stereotypes from the 50s.
- roberto 11y ago> Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if there wasn't a grain of truth in them. So typical of an Aries to say that.
- viiralvx 11y agoThe same statement could be said if you took a sample size of 1000 people. Most probably wouldn't know what you mean when you say "metadata".
- nissehulth 11y ago
- gdulli 11y agoWhat is with the condescending bullshit?
- lizzard 11y agoHi. I'm someone's mom, and both of us understand this. When you use mothers as a metonym for people who don't understand technology, think about who you are assuming is your audience, and who are you are excluding and insulting.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>who are you are excluding and insulting. Change it to Dad then. I'm someone's Dad, have a Dad, and none of us feel excluded or insulted. It's a figure of speech.
- SNvD7vEJ 11y agoLOL, this is one ignorant defense.
- forgetsusername 11y ago>LOL, this is one ignorant defense. So, saying you're a Mom and offended is a valid argument, but that you're a Dad and not offended isn't? Yep, that sounds about right for one of these arguments.
- dllthomas 11y agoSaying you are a mom (or dad) and are offended is a valid argument that offence is occurring. Saying you are a dad (or mom) and are not offended is not a valid argument that offence is not occurring. Sounds right for any rational argument. Of course, having established that offence is occurring, it still leaves open what the appropriate response is.
- Blahah 11y agoYou don't speak on behalf of dads generally. I'm a dad, and would be insulted if the word chosen was dad. Singling out some group as symbolic of something negative (in this case, ignorance about technical matters), is unnecessary and likely to offend.
- ebbv 11y agoIf you're gonna try to explain to non-technical people maybe you should choose your title more carefully. Metadata itself is not bad. It's how it is used and who has access to it. The thing that's bad here is: 1) Lack of personal control over your own meta data. You can' go to Google and say "Erase everything you know about me." easily. Some Google services allow you to do something like this, others don't, it's purposely a big pain in the ass. That goes for all these big companies. 2) Most (all?) governments have too much easy access to this data, and no public disclosure or oversight about what/who they are looking at and for what reasons.
- Robadob 11y agoLonger video (25 minutes) of a talk from BlackHat 2013, about how metadata was used to expose an illegal(?) 2003 CIA operation carried out in Italy. It's by a non-tech journalist, so it's also largely non-technical and provides a very interesting overview of what metadata can expose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGsr3SzCZc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGsr3SzCZc
- stegosaurus 11y agoInteresting video, but it feels a bit 'icky' to me, for lack of better words. The voice feels patronising, perhaps even scary, and towards the end it suddenly turns into a description of a dystopia. If this were an advert I think it'd have most reaching for the remote control fairly rapidly. It's a real challenge to describe these issues without looking unhinged.
- idop 11y agoSo everybody's complaining about the second part of the title, I'm gonna complain about the first. Metadata is a very broad and general term, and metadata is not bad. Here I thought I'm gonna read an article about why I shouldn't be storing metadata in my applications. Instead I get a video explaining how data is collected about me on the internet, mostly via social websites, and how this data can be used not according to my personal interests. That's a very specific case of metadata, and I don't even think the "meta" prefix is important here.
- eclipxe 11y agoAgree. The non technical folk have latched on to a specific use of the word "metadata" completely ignorant of the broader use. They should just say "data" but "'metadata" somehow makes it scarier?!
- DanBC 11y agoThe non technical meanings are "metadata" and "content". The use of "metadata" word is designed to make it sound less scary - it's a word that politicians use when they want to reassure people. "We don't want the content! We just want the metadata - how long a call lasted for, for example". It's a good thing that people are a bit scared about metadata. It's the metadata attacks that make tor hard. It's the metadata attacks that make end-to-end encryption weakers. Companies collect a lot of data. They should be thinking carefully about how much they actually need, and how harmful it is to their users if it gets slurped.
- DanBC 11y agoThe guidelines are pretty clear about titles, and this title is a great example of the trainwrecks that result when people fuck about with titles.
- SNvD7vEJ 11y agoReally, how is metadata bad? ...
- mtgx 11y ago"It's only metadata" and "We drone strike people based on metadata" aren't exactly the most congruent of messages, are they? Either it's close to useless to the point where we have to question why they bother gathering so much in the first place and adding to the noise, or it's so valuable that we assign assassination targets based on it. Which is it, world governments? You can only choose one. You can't choose the middle, because that would be admitting to "assassinating people based on mostly useless information" (and therefore likely killing many innocent people because of that).
- giuscri 11y agoPersonally, as a (would say) techie, I tend to underestimate the importance of this topic. Indeed, the times when I used Tor I felt curious about the technology and how it achieved anonymous traffic. But when people asked me why I was using it I didn't know what to answer. "You know, those poor people under dictatorships..." To my understanding, we miss a big public case where metadata and information collected are used against western people. I fear we won't see any, before it'll be too late. I have no problem with dystopian unrealistic scenarios -- and have no problem accepting it could happen, under the ghost of terrorism. But the majority of people feel this is all too much "cyber-punk" or, worse, that "you have something to hide". A great pop-movie about that would be great!
- ambicapter 11y agoThe amount of outrage generated over a very common turn of phrase honestly smacks of a disinformation campaign. I guess privacy matters are 'passé' on HN now.
- DanBC 11y agoOr you could use the search and fine very similar levels of disgruntlement every single time the phrase is used.
- smt88 11y agoJust because it's a common turn of phrase doesn't mean we should be less outraged. In fact, we should be more outraged, because it's more likely that it's actively harming people. Ideas -- in this case, stereotypes -- are very powerful and have real effects. Language is important in creating expectations, and people are given opportunities based on expectations. Also, it's not a common turn of phrase in my world because I don't spend time with assholes stuck in 1950.
- forgetsusername 11y ago"Actively harming people"...followed by directly referring to someone with a curse word. Funny that the US is on the verge of electing Trump, because there are a lot of people who are tired of this tripe.
- smt88 11y agoInsulting anonymous people based on their behavior (and using curse words) isn't harming anyone, especially because they're anonymous. Perpetuating stereotypes does harm people, because it degrades people based on the way that they were born (or, in this case, also based on the fact that they decided to have a child). No one is on the verge of electing Trump, by the way. More than 70% of women dislike him. More than 60% of the country actively dislikes him[1]. 1. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorabl...
- h_r 11y agoI find it interesting and funny that this video about metadata turned into one giant metadiscussion of the video with almost no mention of the actual content.