5 ms·

On paper, this is more blatantly being demanded to write a self-incriminating document.

MichaelBurge 11y ago
Not really, you're being asked to produce a self-incriminating document you already wrote. You'd have a better argument if you encrypted it in your head with a shared encryption key that your recipient also memorized before putting it in writing anywhere. Then it's like knowing a foreign language that the government can't read. In the US, we already force public companies to store potentially self-incriminating electronic documents in case of an investigation later. It's not too much of a stretch to force individuals to have a retention policy, in case they need to be investigated. I imagine other countries have similar laws. You could take a lesson from said companies and discuss anything remotely risky in-person rather than over monitored networks.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > Not really, you're being asked to produce a self-incriminating document you already wrote. The (paper) document will be produced and turned over. It isn't my fault if anybody doesn't understand how to read it. A warrant isn't a guarantee that evidence will be found or understood. > public companies Corporations are created by the state; they do not have rights. The state can put additional requirements on their offer of limited liability. People have rights against self-incrimination.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jackgavigan 11y ago
    > People have rights against self-incrimination. Not in the UK.
    - caf 11y ago
      The privilege against self-incrimination is based in English common law. Has there been recent legislation to abolish it?
      - deepnet 11y ago
        Fittingly in 1984 the right to silence was changed so guilt could be inferred from silence. For instance when arrested at a place, in England & Wales you must explain your prescence then and there. That whole "...fail to give in evidence something which you later rely on in court..." English Miranda thing when they arrest you. Not sure about Scottish or Northern Irish law. Then when Blair removed Habeus Corpus pretty much the whole of Magna Carta was gone. Really back to secret Star Chamber & Royal inquisitions of yore. (this is a secret trial) The RIPA password law trumps all rights. It has not been taken to the European court of human rights. Looks like it will now. This guy, Lauri Love, objects in principle to the law and is determined to go all the way for Justice.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - sievebrain 11y ago
    The US Constitution has a right against self-incrimination to put a stop to forced confessions (like through torture). But revealing a password cannot possibly be a confession, because all it can do is reveal further evidence. I suspect at some point US courts will rule that being compelled to hand over a password is not 'self incrimination' for the same reason that being compelled to let police search your property isn't. The abuses that rule was put in place to stop just wouldn't apply so interpreted the constitution in that way doesn't make much sense. (and the UK has no equivalent rule against self incrimination ... not sure any country does actually)
- cm2187 11y ago
  So everyone would have to write their password of their computer in clear on a paper in case the police comes one day. Not only is this very Orwellian, but it will turn very nasty very quickly, data leaks will increase tenfold.

Not really, you're being asked to produce a self-incriminating document you already wrote. You'd have a better argument if you encrypted it in your head with a shared encryption key that your recipient also memorized before putting it in writing anywhere. Then it's like knowing a foreign language that the government can't read. In the US, we already force public companies to store potentially self-incriminating electronic documents in case of an investigation later. It's not too much of a stretch to force individuals to have a retention policy, in case they need to be investigated. I imagine other countries have similar laws. You could take a lesson from said companies and discuss anything remotely risky in-person rather than over monitored networks.

pdkl95 11y ago
> Not really, you're being asked to produce a self-incriminating document you already wrote. The (paper) document will be produced and turned over. It isn't my fault if anybody doesn't understand how to read it. A warrant isn't a guarantee that evidence will be found or understood. > public companies Corporations are created by the state; they do not have rights. The state can put additional requirements on their offer of limited liability. People have rights against self-incrimination.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jackgavigan 11y ago
  > People have rights against self-incrimination. Not in the UK.
  - caf 11y ago
    The privilege against self-incrimination is based in English common law. Has there been recent legislation to abolish it?
    - deepnet 11y ago
      Fittingly in 1984 the right to silence was changed so guilt could be inferred from silence. For instance when arrested at a place, in England & Wales you must explain your prescence then and there. That whole "...fail to give in evidence something which you later rely on in court..." English Miranda thing when they arrest you. Not sure about Scottish or Northern Irish law. Then when Blair removed Habeus Corpus pretty much the whole of Magna Carta was gone. Really back to secret Star Chamber & Royal inquisitions of yore. (this is a secret trial) The RIPA password law trumps all rights. It has not been taken to the European court of human rights. Looks like it will now. This guy, Lauri Love, objects in principle to the law and is determined to go all the way for Justice.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- sievebrain 11y ago
  The US Constitution has a right against self-incrimination to put a stop to forced confessions (like through torture). But revealing a password cannot possibly be a confession, because all it can do is reveal further evidence. I suspect at some point US courts will rule that being compelled to hand over a password is not 'self incrimination' for the same reason that being compelled to let police search your property isn't. The abuses that rule was put in place to stop just wouldn't apply so interpreted the constitution in that way doesn't make much sense. (and the UK has no equivalent rule against self incrimination ... not sure any country does actually)
cm2187 11y ago
So everyone would have to write their password of their computer in clear on a paper in case the police comes one day. Not only is this very Orwellian, but it will turn very nasty very quickly, data leaks will increase tenfold.