4 ms·

They would just revoke it because they are the issuers of the license in the first place. You can't take something that you already own from yourself by force.

by nomat 11y ago

patrickaljord 11y ago
What if I still want to exercise my business without a license? How would they enforce it? Hint: see what happens to abortion practitioners in countries where abortion is illegal or marijuana resellers where it's illegal etc.
- Frondo 11y ago
  The idea that business activity can be regulated or controlled by a state governing body is not new, is not controversial, and is also not robbery.
  - patrickaljord 11y ago
    It isn't robbery as defined by the law like the death penalty isn't murder either legally. From a philosophical point of view though, opinions defer. Not saying I agree or not, just saying.
    - jakub_h 11y ago
      I'm still not comprehending how telling someone not to do something would amount to confiscation of property. State mandated confiscation of property would be comparable to robbery the way that legal death penalty would be comparable to murder, but no confiscation of property seems to be involved in simply telling people that some things are not allowed (I'm avoiding here, of course, the very issue of whether it's wise to do that in the first place, which it probably isn't, at least for the foreseeable future.)
      - patrickaljord 11y ago
        Laws are backed by the threat of violence. So yeah, you will have your freedom confiscated and probably the stuff you were selling too.
        jakub_h 11y ago
        I don't know where you live but around here, property of people in prison still remains their property.
        patrickaljord 11y ago
        The property used to commit a crime are usually taken by the police. What do you think happens to your meth lab if you get caught? Or your stock of marijuana or raw milk or the other gazillions things you are forbidden to sell by the power that be and knows better what's good for us?
        jakub_h 11y ago
        The police can't do any such thing here. Only a court could. And even then, it generally happens to the property that is the result of a crime (like bribes, for example, or drug money). What message about the level of respect towards private property and human rights would it send if unrelated property was seized for no good reason? If you can't sell your raw milk (I don't actually believe it's illegal here anyway), I don't think anyone is going to take it from you. After all, it's better if you have to get rid of it. You're perfectly free to drink it. At least the state doesn't have to pay for its sanitary disposal.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
- true_religion 11y ago
  Most businesses don't require a license to operate unless they deal with controlled goods like tobacco, alcohol, pharmaceuticals, or the exploitation of natural resources. Beyond that, what the government provides is the articles of incorporation to limit the liability of investors, and allow the owners and operators of the business to act as a single entity within the court system. If we take away the articles of incorporation, the business can still operate but it's not shielded in anyway from being cut up piecemeal via lawsuits, and a lot of the reason people find it worthwhile to invest in or work for a corporation will be removed.
  - Natsu 11y ago
    Where do you live? That's simply not true here, where any business which has to collect sales tax (i.e. nearly everyone) needs a "Transaction Privilege Tax" license.
    - true_religion 11y ago
      In the United States, there are no national or state level service taxes, so that's a whole branch of businesses that do not have to register for specific taxation purposes. If the US were a VAT-style country, everyone would have to register for taxation purposes. Regardless, at least in the USA, sales tax registration is not the same thing as a licence to operate. You can start a business dealing in tangible goods, and begin selling to out-of-state customers without needing to register for sales tax. The in-state registration for sales tax is simply that---registration, there's no qualifications that you need to attain before you get it, and even without registration you are still required to collect sales taxes.
      - Natsu 11y ago
        If I understand you correctly, while it's not a license, you must have one to do business and you can be punished for not having one. So I have to ask exactly how many businesses can you give me the names & addresses of which legally operate in the USA without any sort of government paperwork which they could punish you for operating without?
jrmurad 11y ago
You're not taking into account that this "Issuer" claims some right to decide (by force, obviously) who can do business in the first place. So if some entrepreneurial lady begins, say, arranging flowers or braiding hair... maybe she gets forced out of business for not having a license. Or maybe she does get a license but it is revoked for some arbitrary reason like the Issuer decides she's a "parasite" because she doesn't employ "enough" people. Either way, force is being used against her.
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  So wait, what if some nice lady decides to set herself up as an issuer of professional licenses. Do you want her put out of a job. Are you calling her a parasite? Are you going to beat her up if she doesn't meekly do what you tell her to do, which is clearly against her own self-interest? Why must all anarchist libertarianism devolve so quickly into bloody, revolutionary violence against individuals! Won't someone think of the children! Do we really need every thread that even tangentially mentions government on HN to devolve into this same childish nonsense?
  - patrickaljord 11y ago
    > So wait, what if some nice lady decides to set herself up as an issuer of professional licenses. Do you want her put out of a job. Are you calling her a parasite? She'd only be a parasite if she claimed a monopoly on her license and threatened any alternative with violence and imprisonment.

They would just revoke it because they are the issuers of the license in the first place. You can't take something that you already own from yourself by force.

by nomat 11y ago

They would just revoke it because they are the issuers of the license in the first place. You can't take something that you already own from yourself by force.

patrickaljord 11y ago

What if I still want to exercise my business without a license? How would they enforce it? Hint: see what happens to abortion practitioners in countries where abortion is illegal or marijuana resellers where it's illegal etc.

Frondo 11y ago
The idea that business activity can be regulated or controlled by a state governing body is not new, is not controversial, and is also not robbery.
- patrickaljord 11y ago
  It isn't robbery as defined by the law like the death penalty isn't murder either legally. From a philosophical point of view though, opinions defer. Not saying I agree or not, just saying.
  - jakub_h 11y ago
    I'm still not comprehending how telling someone not to do something would amount to confiscation of property. State mandated confiscation of property would be comparable to robbery the way that legal death penalty would be comparable to murder, but no confiscation of property seems to be involved in simply telling people that some things are not allowed (I'm avoiding here, of course, the very issue of whether it's wise to do that in the first place, which it probably isn't, at least for the foreseeable future.)
    - patrickaljord 11y ago
      Laws are backed by the threat of violence. So yeah, you will have your freedom confiscated and probably the stuff you were selling too.
      - jakub_h 11y ago
        I don't know where you live but around here, property of people in prison still remains their property.
        patrickaljord 11y ago
        The property used to commit a crime are usually taken by the police. What do you think happens to your meth lab if you get caught? Or your stock of marijuana or raw milk or the other gazillions things you are forbidden to sell by the power that be and knows better what's good for us?
        jakub_h 11y ago
        The police can't do any such thing here. Only a court could. And even then, it generally happens to the property that is the result of a crime (like bribes, for example, or drug money). What message about the level of respect towards private property and human rights would it send if unrelated property was seized for no good reason? If you can't sell your raw milk (I don't actually believe it's illegal here anyway), I don't think anyone is going to take it from you. After all, it's better if you have to get rid of it. You're perfectly free to drink it. At least the state doesn't have to pay for its sanitary disposal.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
true_religion 11y ago
Most businesses don't require a license to operate unless they deal with controlled goods like tobacco, alcohol, pharmaceuticals, or the exploitation of natural resources. Beyond that, what the government provides is the articles of incorporation to limit the liability of investors, and allow the owners and operators of the business to act as a single entity within the court system. If we take away the articles of incorporation, the business can still operate but it's not shielded in anyway from being cut up piecemeal via lawsuits, and a lot of the reason people find it worthwhile to invest in or work for a corporation will be removed.
- Natsu 11y ago
  Where do you live? That's simply not true here, where any business which has to collect sales tax (i.e. nearly everyone) needs a "Transaction Privilege Tax" license.
  - true_religion 11y ago
    In the United States, there are no national or state level service taxes, so that's a whole branch of businesses that do not have to register for specific taxation purposes. If the US were a VAT-style country, everyone would have to register for taxation purposes. Regardless, at least in the USA, sales tax registration is not the same thing as a licence to operate. You can start a business dealing in tangible goods, and begin selling to out-of-state customers without needing to register for sales tax. The in-state registration for sales tax is simply that---registration, there's no qualifications that you need to attain before you get it, and even without registration you are still required to collect sales taxes.
    - Natsu 11y ago
      If I understand you correctly, while it's not a license, you must have one to do business and you can be punished for not having one. So I have to ask exactly how many businesses can you give me the names & addresses of which legally operate in the USA without any sort of government paperwork which they could punish you for operating without?

jrmurad 11y ago

You're not taking into account that this "Issuer" claims some right to decide (by force, obviously) who can do business in the first place. So if some entrepreneurial lady begins, say, arranging flowers or braiding hair... maybe she gets forced out of business for not having a license. Or maybe she does get a license but it is revoked for some arbitrary reason like the Issuer decides she's a "parasite" because she doesn't employ "enough" people. Either way, force is being used against her.

ZeroGravitas 11y ago
So wait, what if some nice lady decides to set herself up as an issuer of professional licenses. Do you want her put out of a job. Are you calling her a parasite? Are you going to beat her up if she doesn't meekly do what you tell her to do, which is clearly against her own self-interest? Why must all anarchist libertarianism devolve so quickly into bloody, revolutionary violence against individuals! Won't someone think of the children! Do we really need every thread that even tangentially mentions government on HN to devolve into this same childish nonsense?
- patrickaljord 11y ago
  > So wait, what if some nice lady decides to set herself up as an issuer of professional licenses. Do you want her put out of a job. Are you calling her a parasite? She'd only be a parasite if she claimed a monopoly on her license and threatened any alternative with violence and imprisonment.