4 ms·

If you're interested in Greece and how they've been screwed b the ECB, I recommend a video[1] I posted[2] a few days ago. It's a discussion from about a month a

by pdkl95 11y ago

If you're interested in Greece and how they've been screwed b the ECB, I recommend a video[1] I posted[2] a few days ago. It's a discussion from about a month ago with Mark Blyth (prof econ at Brown) and the former Minister of Finance Yanis Varoufakis. They discuss "negotiating" with the ECB, brexit, and the "least worst" ways to save the EU. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMk6aVsl8Rs#t=66 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMk6aVsl8Rs#t=66 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11398625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11398625 (If you think Greece's economic situation is anything other than a bailout for the major banks of the EU, then you haven't been paying attention)

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dtornabene 11y ago
This is a superb economist, and from what I can tell he lectures widely and is well respected. I happen to agree with his outlook (largely) fwiw. (he's essentially a social democrat)
5ersi 11y ago
This is a common leftist propaganda we see here in EU - that others are guilty for Greece's situation, and that poor Greece is a victim of shady capitalists (banks). The reality is somewhat different: they have put themselves in that situation by overspending since mid-70s. Not only that - they have been systematically lying to the world about their financial situation: fist when they were entering the EU and then in 2010 when they "discovered" that they are in a much worst situation than previously reported to the creditors (read the part about Eurostat trying since 2004 to improve reliability of Greece-provided financial figures). You should read the facts by yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis Also to debunk the biggest lie, the one where Greece's economic situation is basically bailout for EU banks, let me state this facts: 1. In 2011 there was about €46bn in Greece debt held by EU banks (excluding Greece internal banks), of which €9.4bn was held by French and €7.9bn by German banks. By 2015, Germany, France and Italy held roughly €130bn of total €323bn debt. So EU state members lend Greece about 5x the money that their banks had been exposed to in bad Greece debts. Hardly an EU-bank bailout. 2. Also, in 2011 EU states required commercial lenders (including their own commercial banks) to accept a 50% write-off, before they started using taxpayer money to start refinancing and extending loans to Greece. What really pisses me off is that Greece expects other EU-countries to provide free money to them (by writing off debts or providing well-below-market debt refinancing), while at the same time they only collect half of their tax revenues due. If they only collected the same level of tax revenues as other EU-member states, they would be in no trouble.
- kaonashi 11y ago
  > What really pisses me off is that Greece expects other EU-countries to provide free money to them This is how every functioning federal system works today. Surpluses are recycled from the higher output regions into the lower output regions.
- kafkaesq 11y ago
  This is a common leftist propaganda we see here in EU - that others are guilty for Greece's situation, and that poor Greece is a victim of shady capitalists (banks). The reality is somewhat different: they have put themselves in that situation by overspending since mid-70s. [And they've been lying, too]. If you're going to reject one biased and oversimplified explanation of complex, multi-faceted situation like the Greek debt crisis -- and replace it with another, equally superficial and misleading one -- then you aren't doing much better than the "leftist propaganda" sources you're trying to scare us into disregarding.

by pdkl95 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

dtornabene 11y ago

This is a superb economist, and from what I can tell he lectures widely and is well respected. I happen to agree with his outlook (largely) fwiw. (he's essentially a social democrat)

5ersi 11y ago

This is a common leftist propaganda we see here in EU - that others are guilty for Greece's situation, and that poor Greece is a victim of shady capitalists (banks). The reality is somewhat different: they have put themselves in that situation by overspending since mid-70s. Not only that - they have been systematically lying to the world about their financial situation: fist when they were entering the EU and then in 2010 when they "discovered" that they are in a much worst situation than previously reported to the creditors (read the part about Eurostat trying since 2004 to improve reliability of Greece-provided financial figures). You should read the facts by yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis Also to debunk the biggest lie, the one where Greece's economic situation is basically bailout for EU banks, let me state this facts: 1. In 2011 there was about €46bn in Greece debt held by EU banks (excluding Greece internal banks), of which €9.4bn was held by French and €7.9bn by German banks. By 2015, Germany, France and Italy held roughly €130bn of total €323bn debt. So EU state members lend Greece about 5x the money that their banks had been exposed to in bad Greece debts. Hardly an EU-bank bailout. 2. Also, in 2011 EU states required commercial lenders (including their own commercial banks) to accept a 50% write-off, before they started using taxpayer money to start refinancing and extending loans to Greece. What really pisses me off is that Greece expects other EU-countries to provide free money to them (by writing off debts or providing well-below-market debt refinancing), while at the same time they only collect half of their tax revenues due. If they only collected the same level of tax revenues as other EU-member states, they would be in no trouble.

kaonashi 11y ago
> What really pisses me off is that Greece expects other EU-countries to provide free money to them This is how every functioning federal system works today. Surpluses are recycled from the higher output regions into the lower output regions.
kafkaesq 11y ago
This is a common leftist propaganda we see here in EU - that others are guilty for Greece's situation, and that poor Greece is a victim of shady capitalists (banks). The reality is somewhat different: they have put themselves in that situation by overspending since mid-70s. [And they've been lying, too]. If you're going to reject one biased and oversimplified explanation of complex, multi-faceted situation like the Greek debt crisis -- and replace it with another, equally superficial and misleading one -- then you aren't doing much better than the "leftist propaganda" sources you're trying to scare us into disregarding.