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Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are chosen

Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are chosen by students. We all choose our own path. No need to lay responsibility at the feet of another. Another thing Confucius said was if you don't want to do something, don't ask someone else to do it. If you don't want to find yourself, don't ask the world to do it for you. > Confucius proposed another approach: “as if” rituals, that is, rituals meant to break us out of our own reality for a moment. I wonder what the author thinks is the purpose of extracurriculars if not to give students the opportunity to practice this ritual.

saulrh 11y ago
Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you. Forcefully. > Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are chosen by students. We all choose our own path. No need to lay responsibility at the feet of another. It is trivially false that "We all choose our own path" and that sentiment stinks of caveman thinking and bloody evolution. Schools may not be singularly responsible, but the average American public school goes a long way toward preventing enlightenment. As a trivial example, consider the tested and measured objective effects of, say, enforcing abstinence-only sex education on whether a population actually has sex or not. You say that we can all "choose our own path", but when you really get down to it, the selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're allowed to go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than others, and we don't all have infinite intelligence, willpower, or time. If we did, we wouldn't have problems like being poor or the autism spectrum or functional illiteracy or innumeracy. Everybody wants to get rid of these things, but the paths to being free of them simply aren't there. > Another thing Confucius said was if you don't want to do something, don't ask someone else to do it. If you don't want to find yourself, don't ask the world to do it for you. Fuck this "every man for himself" bullshit. That's what gets us into the messes that we're in right now. Success is built on cooperation and coordination and if you insist on doing everything yourself you'll never get past living in trees and ooga-boogaing at antelope. We, as humans, are distinguished by our ability to ask people to do things that we don't want to do, that we wouldn't do as well, or that we can't do without help, and I consider this mindset, to throw those things away as being "weak" somehow, to be heresy. Being able to ask someone else for help is what makes humans strong.
- studentrob 11y ago
  > Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you You're welcome to try. My comment was written within the context of the article. > Schools may not be singularly responsible, but the average American public school goes a long way toward preventing enlightenment. The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher education. So, in the context of the article, by schools I meant colleges and not the average american school. > the selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're allowed to go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than others For anything in which we are educated you will find some people who follow the education and others who don't. I won't disagree that marketing and education plays a big role on people who look to others to make decisions for them. I won't disagree that some people grow up without the love needed to empower their own confidence. Yet the fact remains that you can once in awhile find a destitute child who has risen to the top and beaten the odds. This suggests that marketing is not all powerful. It is possible to beat the odds. > Fuck this "every man for himself" bullshit Let me also add that I don't think we should stop educating. I just think that part of education should include the idea that yes you can and you don't need to do exactly as I say in order to be successful. Part of this message involves telling the student that he is valuable and can make his or her own choices just like I wrote above. No problem in asking for help. I will help and in the process try to find something that you did yourself, point it out, and hopefully give you some more confidence. None of us are better than any other. None of us are worse than any other. The sooner you come around to that idea, the sooner you stop placing more value in others than yourself, or vice versa.
  - abalashov 11y ago
    > The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher education. Indeed, but when folk enter post-secondary education, their schooling overwhelmingly accounts for their intellectual development and conscious personal history in most cases.
    - studentrob 11y ago
      Well you've got to start doing things for yourself at some point. If that isn't done during college these days I don't know when it is. Probably varies among us. You could even reasonably say it doesn't happen even until death since people will help you not die until you die. The only issue I take with this article is it is blaming the very institutions that provide optional education. Many students must take out a very big loan to attend college in the US. To then blame schools for not helping us find success, I find ironic. If you're not happy with the educational system you can begin by teaching. Put your money where your mouth is.

saulrh 11y ago

Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you. Forcefully. > Blech. I disagree that schools are responsible for any student's ability or inability to find him or herself. Schools are one of many gateways that are chosen by students. We all choose our own path. No need to lay responsibility at the feet of another. It is trivially false that "We all choose our own path" and that sentiment stinks of caveman thinking and bloody evolution. Schools may not be singularly responsible, but the average American public school goes a long way toward preventing enlightenment. As a trivial example, consider the tested and measured objective effects of, say, enforcing abstinence-only sex education on whether a population actually has sex or not. You say that we can all "choose our own path", but when you really get down to it, the selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're allowed to go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than others, and we don't all have infinite intelligence, willpower, or time. If we did, we wouldn't have problems like being poor or the autism spectrum or functional illiteracy or innumeracy. Everybody wants to get rid of these things, but the paths to being free of them simply aren't there. > Another thing Confucius said was if you don't want to do something, don't ask someone else to do it. If you don't want to find yourself, don't ask the world to do it for you. Fuck this "every man for himself" bullshit. That's what gets us into the messes that we're in right now. Success is built on cooperation and coordination and if you insist on doing everything yourself you'll never get past living in trees and ooga-boogaing at antelope. We, as humans, are distinguished by our ability to ask people to do things that we don't want to do, that we wouldn't do as well, or that we can't do without help, and I consider this mindset, to throw those things away as being "weak" somehow, to be heresy. Being able to ask someone else for help is what makes humans strong.

studentrob 11y ago
> Independent of the original article, I would like to disagree with you You're welcome to try. My comment was written within the context of the article. > Schools may not be singularly responsible, but the average American public school goes a long way toward preventing enlightenment. The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher education. So, in the context of the article, by schools I meant colleges and not the average american school. > the selection of paths that are available to us and which paths we're allowed to go down are not up to us, some paths are easier to go down than others For anything in which we are educated you will find some people who follow the education and others who don't. I won't disagree that marketing and education plays a big role on people who look to others to make decisions for them. I won't disagree that some people grow up without the love needed to empower their own confidence. Yet the fact remains that you can once in awhile find a destitute child who has risen to the top and beaten the odds. This suggests that marketing is not all powerful. It is possible to beat the odds. > Fuck this "every man for himself" bullshit Let me also add that I don't think we should stop educating. I just think that part of education should include the idea that yes you can and you don't need to do exactly as I say in order to be successful. Part of this message involves telling the student that he is valuable and can make his or her own choices just like I wrote above. No problem in asking for help. I will help and in the process try to find something that you did yourself, point it out, and hopefully give you some more confidence. None of us are better than any other. None of us are worse than any other. The sooner you come around to that idea, the sooner you stop placing more value in others than yourself, or vice versa.
- abalashov 11y ago
  > The first line of the article makes it clear they're talking about higher education. Indeed, but when folk enter post-secondary education, their schooling overwhelmingly accounts for their intellectual development and conscious personal history in most cases.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    Well you've got to start doing things for yourself at some point. If that isn't done during college these days I don't know when it is. Probably varies among us. You could even reasonably say it doesn't happen even until death since people will help you not die until you die. The only issue I take with this article is it is blaming the very institutions that provide optional education. Many students must take out a very big loan to attend college in the US. To then blame schools for not helping us find success, I find ironic. If you're not happy with the educational system you can begin by teaching. Put your money where your mouth is.