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Can someone tell me what the big deal is here? Apple's refurb devices are guaranteed. Isn't it binary whether or not the water damage kills the device? I.e. if

Can someone tell me what the big deal is here? Apple's refurb devices are guaranteed. Isn't it binary whether or not the water damage kills the device? I.e. if they're able to sell a water damaged board with a few replaced chips on it, then the water damage by definition isn't an issue because the board is working.

iandanforth 11y ago
The refurb was faulty. She says in the video that if it had been done properly merely dropping the device would not have broken it, and the customer wouldn't have had to get it repaired again. The distinction is between "working" and "robust." They sold a working device, but not an "Apple quality" robust device.
jschwartzi 11y ago
The biggest issue I see is that the original tech didn't replace the underfill. As a result the PMIC would not have the same drop resistance as a factory installed chip. I would expect anything sold as refurbished to meet the same spec as a new device, and this one absolutely doesn't. This includes mechanical specs, which would not be fully tested when smoke-testing a rework.
- Someone 11y ago
  I'm not saying anything about this example, but why would you expect a refurbished unit, sold at a lower price than a new device to meet the same specs as that new device? Surely, something must be different about it?
  - troisx 11y ago
    Yes, it is different because it's used. It's also supposed to be have been brought back to new condition on the inside where damaged and faulty parts have been replaced by as-new parts, not by replacement parts that are also damaged.
    - jschwartzi 11y ago
      This is what is meant by refurbished, as opposed to repaired.
  - bbchase 11y ago
    Apple's refurb stuff generally undergoes a more stringent QA process than their factory stuff (in fact a lot of the refurb units are returns that were never used, but are still checked). There might be some visible differences if repairs are required, but the quality should generally be as-good or better. The iPad in this video is either an anomaly or, more likely, not an unaltered refurb from Apple.
  - ICS_tech_repair 11y ago
    Because Apple says so when they sell you the refurbished unit! They say it will be the same like a new unit from the functional side. And if that underfill (the resin/glue referred to in the video) was not important, Apple wouldn't have bothered to put it there for new factory units, consequently increasing their manufacturing cost as well as their refurbishing cost - since removing the black underfill/glue to replace those chips is a nightmare (I know, I do it for a living). On the flip side, underfill provides much more durability and protection from liquid damage (liquid is prevented from slipping under the chip and damaging the balls = contact points = solder joints) and helps the device sustain a lot of abuse. Whoever has children or repairs those devices for a living can tell you the huge amount of abuse they are subject to. So skipping on the underfill process for refurbished units is a "design fault" in my humble opinion. This as well as leaving corroded caps and components on the board. When I fix a MacBook Pro board that was damaged from a liquid spill, I replace every corroded component I can find, even if still functional, to future proof my repair.
jdiez17 11y ago
The issue is that Apple is trying to make it impossible for independent repair shops to buy the components (proprietary ICs and such) they need to fix the boards. Here's a video by someone who fixes Apple laptops for a living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuAF3OJIoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuAF3OJIoU

iandanforth 11y ago

The refurb was faulty. She says in the video that if it had been done properly merely dropping the device would not have broken it, and the customer wouldn't have had to get it repaired again. The distinction is between "working" and "robust." They sold a working device, but not an "Apple quality" robust device.

jschwartzi 11y ago

The biggest issue I see is that the original tech didn't replace the underfill. As a result the PMIC would not have the same drop resistance as a factory installed chip. I would expect anything sold as refurbished to meet the same spec as a new device, and this one absolutely doesn't. This includes mechanical specs, which would not be fully tested when smoke-testing a rework.

Someone 11y ago
I'm not saying anything about this example, but why would you expect a refurbished unit, sold at a lower price than a new device to meet the same specs as that new device? Surely, something must be different about it?
- troisx 11y ago
  Yes, it is different because it's used. It's also supposed to be have been brought back to new condition on the inside where damaged and faulty parts have been replaced by as-new parts, not by replacement parts that are also damaged.
  - jschwartzi 11y ago
    This is what is meant by refurbished, as opposed to repaired.
- bbchase 11y ago
  Apple's refurb stuff generally undergoes a more stringent QA process than their factory stuff (in fact a lot of the refurb units are returns that were never used, but are still checked). There might be some visible differences if repairs are required, but the quality should generally be as-good or better. The iPad in this video is either an anomaly or, more likely, not an unaltered refurb from Apple.
- ICS_tech_repair 11y ago
  Because Apple says so when they sell you the refurbished unit! They say it will be the same like a new unit from the functional side. And if that underfill (the resin/glue referred to in the video) was not important, Apple wouldn't have bothered to put it there for new factory units, consequently increasing their manufacturing cost as well as their refurbishing cost - since removing the black underfill/glue to replace those chips is a nightmare (I know, I do it for a living). On the flip side, underfill provides much more durability and protection from liquid damage (liquid is prevented from slipping under the chip and damaging the balls = contact points = solder joints) and helps the device sustain a lot of abuse. Whoever has children or repairs those devices for a living can tell you the huge amount of abuse they are subject to. So skipping on the underfill process for refurbished units is a "design fault" in my humble opinion. This as well as leaving corroded caps and components on the board. When I fix a MacBook Pro board that was damaged from a liquid spill, I replace every corroded component I can find, even if still functional, to future proof my repair.

jdiez17 11y ago

The issue is that Apple is trying to make it impossible for independent repair shops to buy the components (proprietary ICs and such) they need to fix the boards. Here's a video by someone who fixes Apple laptops for a living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuAF3OJIoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuAF3OJIoU