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For stars and talents, academia provides something the private sector can never provide: freedom. Established professors can dictate their own rhythm. They can

by sktrdie 11y ago

For stars and talents, academia provides something the private sector can never provide: freedom. Established professors can dictate their own rhythm. They can work hard all year long, or they can slack for some months and concentrate on their families more. They can change sub-fields of interest as they see fit, and work on problems they want to solve. Also, they get to teach which is by far the biggest privilege one could ever achieve. Of course private research provides very interesting deals, but most stars and talents are exactly that because they had the freedom of doing things as they see fit. Putting them in a company structure with quirky rules is not their natural habitat.

stared 11y ago
I would strongly argue with that. I run away from academia _exactly_ to pursue freedom: http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html In short, in academia you are bound by hierarchy, local politics, grants and bureaucracy, 1-2 year lag in anything. As a freelancer I have enough $$$ I am free to pursue my intellectual interests (any side projects, teaching students topics of my choosing, etc). And when it comes to teaching - I get _only_ students that are interested, not - diluted by the crowd who just wants to fulfill the curriculum.
- sktrdie 11y ago
  I like your article, but certainly your PhD experience is not comparable to an established professor position which was really the hole point of this thread. PhD's are harsh different realities. You're still a student as a PhD and it shouldn't really be compared to anything else; certainly not a contractor position. You're right that there are professors that are bound to hierarchy, local politics, grants, etc.. But the important point is that it is their choice to be bound to that, not someone else's. David Graeber once said "Every society has something to do with brilliant, imaginative and extremely impractical people ...we used to put them in academia, but now academia is all about self marketing." - https://youtu.be/IHAJiuU5xhk?t=9s https://youtu.be/IHAJiuU5xhk?t=9s - I think this really hits the nail on the button. Academia was and should be a place where these impractical stars can shine to their potential.
  - stared 11y ago
    I agree that the gap for academia to industry is very different for young and established researchers. No, I am not a PhD student (I defended 1.5y ago). And I saw that I really don't want be a postdoc; not even as a "purgatory" to go through - I didn't envy professors either. While professors do have a lot to say, they are still bound by administrative duties, pointless meetings, maneuvering grant calls so they can use it for something they actually consider useful, etc. Sure, for some its fine (or at least - acceptable; or - they don't have other intellectually challenging job opportunities). Some others (e.g. the ones in the article) are happy to join Google. And I am sure it is not only about money. It's a very different experience than being a professor in 50s or 60s; e.g. one day I talked to (now late) Kenneth Wilson and he told me that he had changed his field overnight (into one that gave him the Nobel prize). Right now it is unimaginable. Sure, I also consider the current shape of academia sad. But... when it comes to the "impractical" dreamers, let's not colorize the past. Vide my another writing: http://crastina.se/theres-no-projects-like-side-projects/ http://crastina.se/theres-no-projects-like-side-projects/ (for academia, look at the John Bell's example).
grayclhn 11y ago
> They can work hard all year long, or they can slack for some months and concentrate on their families more Yeah, that's kinda not true. In academia, you have the freedom to work whichever 60-80 hours a week you want, but no one becomes a "star" (or even an "associate professor") by slacking for months at a time. > Also, they get to teach which is by far the biggest privilege one could ever achieve. lol.
nikofeyn 11y ago
you should read the book disciplined minds. do you have any experience with academia? it is very much not free in spirit. even getting a ph.d. these days requires more exercise in tedium and logistics than creative thought.

by sktrdie 11y ago

stared 11y ago

I would strongly argue with that. I run away from academia _exactly_ to pursue freedom: http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html In short, in academia you are bound by hierarchy, local politics, grants and bureaucracy, 1-2 year lag in anything. As a freelancer I have enough $$$ I am free to pursue my intellectual interests (any side projects, teaching students topics of my choosing, etc). And when it comes to teaching - I get _only_ students that are interested, not - diluted by the crowd who just wants to fulfill the curriculum.

sktrdie 11y ago
I like your article, but certainly your PhD experience is not comparable to an established professor position which was really the hole point of this thread. PhD's are harsh different realities. You're still a student as a PhD and it shouldn't really be compared to anything else; certainly not a contractor position. You're right that there are professors that are bound to hierarchy, local politics, grants, etc.. But the important point is that it is their choice to be bound to that, not someone else's. David Graeber once said "Every society has something to do with brilliant, imaginative and extremely impractical people ...we used to put them in academia, but now academia is all about self marketing." - https://youtu.be/IHAJiuU5xhk?t=9s https://youtu.be/IHAJiuU5xhk?t=9s - I think this really hits the nail on the button. Academia was and should be a place where these impractical stars can shine to their potential.
- stared 11y ago
  I agree that the gap for academia to industry is very different for young and established researchers. No, I am not a PhD student (I defended 1.5y ago). And I saw that I really don't want be a postdoc; not even as a "purgatory" to go through - I didn't envy professors either. While professors do have a lot to say, they are still bound by administrative duties, pointless meetings, maneuvering grant calls so they can use it for something they actually consider useful, etc. Sure, for some its fine (or at least - acceptable; or - they don't have other intellectually challenging job opportunities). Some others (e.g. the ones in the article) are happy to join Google. And I am sure it is not only about money. It's a very different experience than being a professor in 50s or 60s; e.g. one day I talked to (now late) Kenneth Wilson and he told me that he had changed his field overnight (into one that gave him the Nobel prize). Right now it is unimaginable. Sure, I also consider the current shape of academia sad. But... when it comes to the "impractical" dreamers, let's not colorize the past. Vide my another writing: http://crastina.se/theres-no-projects-like-side-projects/ http://crastina.se/theres-no-projects-like-side-projects/ (for academia, look at the John Bell's example).

grayclhn 11y ago

> They can work hard all year long, or they can slack for some months and concentrate on their families more Yeah, that's kinda not true. In academia, you have the freedom to work whichever 60-80 hours a week you want, but no one becomes a "star" (or even an "associate professor") by slacking for months at a time. > Also, they get to teach which is by far the biggest privilege one could ever achieve. lol.

nikofeyn 11y ago

you should read the book disciplined minds. do you have any experience with academia? it is very much not free in spirit. even getting a ph.d. these days requires more exercise in tedium and logistics than creative thought.