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Except we're not talking about people who need babysitting, but people who are babysitters. High school students are perfectly capable of waking up and getting

Except we're not talking about people who need babysitting, but people who are babysitters. High school students are perfectly capable of waking up and getting ready for the day after their parents have left the house. There's no good reason for high school hours and parents work hours to be coupled, unless it is necessary for a parent to drive the kids to school on their way to work (i.e. because the bus is too slow and would require waking up hours earlier). In which case the actual problem has nothing to do with education policy, and everything to do with the parents' decision to live in sprawl.

Rangi42 11y ago
Which is also not likely to change. Again: "Now adults have no immediate use for teenagers." Why move just for the sake of your kid's four years in high school? This may not apply to urban families who take a train or bus to work. I commuted to high school on a subway by myself, and would have preferred leaving an hour or two later.
- superuser2 11y ago
  I could be mistaken, but don't most people move to sprawl in the first place because it's "a good place to raise your kids"? Also, living in a city isn't the only solution. I lived in a suburb ten miles away from the city but all 3 schools were <15 minute walks.
agentdrtran 11y ago
> High school students are perfectly capable of waking up and getting ready for the day after their parents have left the house. Unless, of course, they need a ride to school.
- auxym 11y ago
  What is it with parents driving their kids to school these days? Or is it a US thing? Back when I was in school, every single kid would ride the school bus. Well, except those close enough to walk/cycle, or those old enough to own and drive a car or scooter.
  - neverminder 11y ago
    Exactly. I was walking over 3 kilometers (2 miles) to school since I was 7 years old (I started school at 6, so I my parents drove me for a year to adjust). Nowadays parents treat their kids like they were made of candy glass.
    - sp332 11y ago
      Geez, if I put all my high school books in my bag it weighed 40 pounds (I measured it once). And the cold weather means walking wasn't always an option.
      - kuschku 11y ago
        I lived 2km from my primary school, and 4km from my middle and high school. My school bag was 16kg. And it was easily possible to walk there, or later, bike there. (although I had to walk every now and so often when my bike broke down in -14°C in winter). I don’t really see where the issue is?
        pragone 11y ago
        Different cultures I guess. I definitely would not have done that as a kid, my parents wouldn't have allowed me to, and someone would have called the police if they saw a 10y/o walking along these roads
        kuschku 11y ago
        Probably. Here everyone did it, alone at my school we had 700 kids each morning coming by bike or foot. Out of 1200. It was literally impossible to drive on the road for cars during the half hour each morning and afternoon where we kids were there. Similar to Amsterdam or København
        analog31 11y ago
        It must be culture, at least in areas where walking to school is pretty convenient. Anecdote: When I was growing up, I walked to elementary school, all of five or six neighborhood blocks. The one kid who got driven to school, got teased for it. Today, same school, same neighborhood, is a traffic jam every morning, as the kids are all driven to school. I could very well imagine parents saying that it's no longer safe to walk, due to the traffic. :-(
- iopq 11y ago
  Take a bus? What teenager can't take a bus by themselves?
  - DSMan195276 11y ago
    In my district (and all the districts around me) there is no busing for high-school students. So for the students that don't drive (Which would account for probably more then half the school), parents or someone else has to drive them.
    - Fargren 11y ago
      And no public bus either I assume? I always took public transport to school, but I know that's highly dependant on where you live.
      - dmoy 11y ago
        Public busing in the US is awful in most cities. In the suburbs it's basically just to downtown and from downtown.
    - iopq 11y ago
      I didn't say busing for students, I meant take a bus with everyone else.
      - DSMan195276 11y ago
        There's only one district I know of, of the ones which don't offer busing for high-school students, which has a public bus that goes to the high-school. My district in particular doesn't have any public buses that go to the high-school.
        iopq 11y ago
        I took a tram to college. It went to downtown, not the campus, so I walked the rest of the way. It's not ideal, but I didn't have my parents drive me (I didn't have a car). I don't see why high school students can't do this.
chongli 11y ago
but people who are babysitters You hit the nail on the head with this one. High school hours are specifically set to end earlier than elementary and middle school hours. This is so that high schoolers can pick up their younger siblings and walk them home while parents are still at work.
- greedo 11y ago
  Not the case in my school district. Our elementary schools get out before the high schools, and both middle and HS end at the same time.
greedo 11y ago
A lot of school districts don't have buses except for special needs students. That puts the onus on parents to provide transportation until the students are old enough to drive.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  The school system here buses every student (they switched over due to it becoming prudent to close buildings).
- gambiting 11y ago
  I'm from Poland and I went to a private school - out of the 1000 students at school I think maybe 5 were dropped off by their parents, and it was a sign of extreme wealth, all kids are expected to walk or take a bus to school. When I started primary school at the age of 7 I walked to school, it was like a mile away. My parents also left to work before me, I had to lock the door behind me, and when I got back from school they wouldn't be back yet usually. I'm pretty sure kids are perfectly capable of getting to school on their own.
  - toyg 11y ago
    This post is completely irrelevant to Europeans, imho. Nowhere I know of, does any school start any activity before 8 AM. In the UK it's 9 AM in most places, in Italy it's 8:15 or later. Anything before 8 is extended daycare for parents who cannot fit the regular schedule. 7:30 start sounds totally insane.
    - gambiting 11y ago
      We started at 7.45, so in middle school I actually had to get a bus at 6.50am, since it was a little further away. It's not the end of the world.
    - lhecker 11y ago
      I'd be careful with "europeans", because primary school started at 7:00 for me in germany and gymnasium at 7:10. I had to stand up at 5:30 every day (and got to bed at about 23:00). Most german friends I know of started earlier than 8:00 too (most started at 7:30). And yes I'm talking about actual lessons starting at that time - not "day care". Even though from our point of view there seemingly wasn't really a difference between those anyways...

Rangi42 11y ago

Which is also not likely to change. Again: "Now adults have no immediate use for teenagers." Why move just for the sake of your kid's four years in high school? This may not apply to urban families who take a train or bus to work. I commuted to high school on a subway by myself, and would have preferred leaving an hour or two later.

superuser2 11y ago
I could be mistaken, but don't most people move to sprawl in the first place because it's "a good place to raise your kids"? Also, living in a city isn't the only solution. I lived in a suburb ten miles away from the city but all 3 schools were <15 minute walks.

agentdrtran 11y ago

> High school students are perfectly capable of waking up and getting ready for the day after their parents have left the house. Unless, of course, they need a ride to school.

auxym 11y ago
What is it with parents driving their kids to school these days? Or is it a US thing? Back when I was in school, every single kid would ride the school bus. Well, except those close enough to walk/cycle, or those old enough to own and drive a car or scooter.
- neverminder 11y ago
  Exactly. I was walking over 3 kilometers (2 miles) to school since I was 7 years old (I started school at 6, so I my parents drove me for a year to adjust). Nowadays parents treat their kids like they were made of candy glass.
  - sp332 11y ago
    Geez, if I put all my high school books in my bag it weighed 40 pounds (I measured it once). And the cold weather means walking wasn't always an option.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      I lived 2km from my primary school, and 4km from my middle and high school. My school bag was 16kg. And it was easily possible to walk there, or later, bike there. (although I had to walk every now and so often when my bike broke down in -14°C in winter). I don’t really see where the issue is?
      - pragone 11y ago
        Different cultures I guess. I definitely would not have done that as a kid, my parents wouldn't have allowed me to, and someone would have called the police if they saw a 10y/o walking along these roads
        kuschku 11y ago
        Probably. Here everyone did it, alone at my school we had 700 kids each morning coming by bike or foot. Out of 1200. It was literally impossible to drive on the road for cars during the half hour each morning and afternoon where we kids were there. Similar to Amsterdam or København
        analog31 11y ago
        It must be culture, at least in areas where walking to school is pretty convenient. Anecdote: When I was growing up, I walked to elementary school, all of five or six neighborhood blocks. The one kid who got driven to school, got teased for it. Today, same school, same neighborhood, is a traffic jam every morning, as the kids are all driven to school. I could very well imagine parents saying that it's no longer safe to walk, due to the traffic. :-(
iopq 11y ago
Take a bus? What teenager can't take a bus by themselves?
- DSMan195276 11y ago
  In my district (and all the districts around me) there is no busing for high-school students. So for the students that don't drive (Which would account for probably more then half the school), parents or someone else has to drive them.
  - Fargren 11y ago
    And no public bus either I assume? I always took public transport to school, but I know that's highly dependant on where you live.
    - dmoy 11y ago
      Public busing in the US is awful in most cities. In the suburbs it's basically just to downtown and from downtown.
  - iopq 11y ago
    I didn't say busing for students, I meant take a bus with everyone else.
    - DSMan195276 11y ago
      There's only one district I know of, of the ones which don't offer busing for high-school students, which has a public bus that goes to the high-school. My district in particular doesn't have any public buses that go to the high-school.
      - iopq 11y ago
        I took a tram to college. It went to downtown, not the campus, so I walked the rest of the way. It's not ideal, but I didn't have my parents drive me (I didn't have a car). I don't see why high school students can't do this.

chongli 11y ago

but people who are babysitters You hit the nail on the head with this one. High school hours are specifically set to end earlier than elementary and middle school hours. This is so that high schoolers can pick up their younger siblings and walk them home while parents are still at work.

greedo 11y ago
Not the case in my school district. Our elementary schools get out before the high schools, and both middle and HS end at the same time.

greedo 11y ago

A lot of school districts don't have buses except for special needs students. That puts the onus on parents to provide transportation until the students are old enough to drive.

maxerickson 11y ago
The school system here buses every student (they switched over due to it becoming prudent to close buildings).
gambiting 11y ago
I'm from Poland and I went to a private school - out of the 1000 students at school I think maybe 5 were dropped off by their parents, and it was a sign of extreme wealth, all kids are expected to walk or take a bus to school. When I started primary school at the age of 7 I walked to school, it was like a mile away. My parents also left to work before me, I had to lock the door behind me, and when I got back from school they wouldn't be back yet usually. I'm pretty sure kids are perfectly capable of getting to school on their own.
- toyg 11y ago
  This post is completely irrelevant to Europeans, imho. Nowhere I know of, does any school start any activity before 8 AM. In the UK it's 9 AM in most places, in Italy it's 8:15 or later. Anything before 8 is extended daycare for parents who cannot fit the regular schedule. 7:30 start sounds totally insane.
  - gambiting 11y ago
    We started at 7.45, so in middle school I actually had to get a bus at 6.50am, since it was a little further away. It's not the end of the world.
  - lhecker 11y ago
    I'd be careful with "europeans", because primary school started at 7:00 for me in germany and gymnasium at 7:10. I had to stand up at 5:30 every day (and got to bed at about 23:00). Most german friends I know of started earlier than 8:00 too (most started at 7:30). And yes I'm talking about actual lessons starting at that time - not "day care". Even though from our point of view there seemingly wasn't really a difference between those anyways...