4 ms·

How is the hacker culture different between the late nineties and now?

7 points by rms_returns 11y ago

The question says it all. If you have seen or were part of the hacker culture during the early days, how do you see it different now?

rboyd 11y ago
Well, firstly I don't know that we would have considered the late 90s to be the early days. I was pretty active during a time where the scene was transitioning from underground bulletin boards to the internet/irc, circa ~1991 and even then it was common to find textfiles describing esoteric systems that were hard to find anymore. I'm not active at all anymore in infosec (white or blackhat), so it's impossible for me to draw a comparison. But I can tell you that back then it was very much more about trading information and socializing. Google around for anything published from a guy named Fravia. When I remember those days, he more than anybody captured the philosophy I wanted to subscribe to. These days it sounds pretty scary. Back then you could get in trouble for phreaking some phone calls and end up with a stern talking to from the telco. Now you aim a webcrawler at the wrong service and they lock you up. It also seems like blackhats now have a much more mature ecosystem and financial motives. Right around Defcon6 I think it was, hacker groups started building commercial product and people landed on episodes of MTV True Life. I think that was a pretty important shift. tl;dr more fun, way less scary? Edit: If you're talking about programming in general and the dot-com bubble, that's a different story. I may have missed the point.
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znpy 11y ago
I think the main difference is that it is not a subculture anymore.
- nairboon 11y ago
  Why isn't it still a subculture?
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- hackernewsuser 11y ago
  You mean hacking has gone main stream? I must admit I've been living under a rock, but if that's the case please tell me where can I see it? I would agree that computer nerds have become more acceptable, but popular culture having positive references to it and most people owning computers do not constitute the main-streaming of hacker culture.
hackernewsuser 11y ago
How has hacker culture changed? Not at all. I've been living, breathing, eating and drinking (less these days, tryna clean up my diet) the hacker culture, hacking continuously since late 1980s. Linux and Windows NT were of course the biggies, but after Windows XP it's been a meh fest turning into cringe fest, and Unix never changes. One thing has changed: nowadays you can be even more reclusive and asocial than in the early, diskette-swapping, meatspace-meeting days. Hacking will always be the same activity despite having more code at your disposal. Keep on hacking relentlessly and one day you'll make a sweet hack. Only then you truly understand what it is to be a hacker.
- greenyoda 11y ago
  "One thing has changed: nowadays you can be even more reclusive and asocial than in the early, diskette-swapping, meatspace-meeting days..." ...or in the even earlier days when all the hackers hung out together in a terminal room. I learned a lot about Unix in the early '80s by sitting side by side with some accomplished Unix hackers, to the point where the powers that be gave me the root password on the system (a PDP 11/45 running Seventh Edition Unix).
hackernewsuser 11y ago
There are more opportunities for different kinds of hacking now. A blank screen with a blinking cursor focuses the mind. But when that's all you have (there are no other windows, no other programs, not even the memory to run them), it becomes an automatic flow state - or nothing. Those who got something, were the ones who became hackers. The off-line world was - and still is - rich. The net is a distraction that keeps you from noticing important things to hack.

7 points by rms_returns 11y ago

The question says it all. If you have seen or were part of the hacker culture during the early days, how do you see it different now?

rboyd 11y ago

Well, firstly I don't know that we would have considered the late 90s to be the early days. I was pretty active during a time where the scene was transitioning from underground bulletin boards to the internet/irc, circa ~1991 and even then it was common to find textfiles describing esoteric systems that were hard to find anymore. I'm not active at all anymore in infosec (white or blackhat), so it's impossible for me to draw a comparison. But I can tell you that back then it was very much more about trading information and socializing. Google around for anything published from a guy named Fravia. When I remember those days, he more than anybody captured the philosophy I wanted to subscribe to. These days it sounds pretty scary. Back then you could get in trouble for phreaking some phone calls and end up with a stern talking to from the telco. Now you aim a webcrawler at the wrong service and they lock you up. It also seems like blackhats now have a much more mature ecosystem and financial motives. Right around Defcon6 I think it was, hacker groups started building commercial product and people landed on episodes of MTV True Life. I think that was a pretty important shift. tl;dr more fun, way less scary? Edit: If you're talking about programming in general and the dot-com bubble, that's a different story. I may have missed the point.

deleted 11y ago
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znpy 11y ago

I think the main difference is that it is not a subculture anymore.

nairboon 11y ago
Why isn't it still a subculture?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
hackernewsuser 11y ago
You mean hacking has gone main stream? I must admit I've been living under a rock, but if that's the case please tell me where can I see it? I would agree that computer nerds have become more acceptable, but popular culture having positive references to it and most people owning computers do not constitute the main-streaming of hacker culture.

hackernewsuser 11y ago

How has hacker culture changed? Not at all. I've been living, breathing, eating and drinking (less these days, tryna clean up my diet) the hacker culture, hacking continuously since late 1980s. Linux and Windows NT were of course the biggies, but after Windows XP it's been a meh fest turning into cringe fest, and Unix never changes. One thing has changed: nowadays you can be even more reclusive and asocial than in the early, diskette-swapping, meatspace-meeting days. Hacking will always be the same activity despite having more code at your disposal. Keep on hacking relentlessly and one day you'll make a sweet hack. Only then you truly understand what it is to be a hacker.

greenyoda 11y ago
"One thing has changed: nowadays you can be even more reclusive and asocial than in the early, diskette-swapping, meatspace-meeting days..." ...or in the even earlier days when all the hackers hung out together in a terminal room. I learned a lot about Unix in the early '80s by sitting side by side with some accomplished Unix hackers, to the point where the powers that be gave me the root password on the system (a PDP 11/45 running Seventh Edition Unix).

hackernewsuser 11y ago

There are more opportunities for different kinds of hacking now. A blank screen with a blinking cursor focuses the mind. But when that's all you have (there are no other windows, no other programs, not even the memory to run them), it becomes an automatic flow state - or nothing. Those who got something, were the ones who became hackers. The off-line world was - and still is - rich. The net is a distraction that keeps you from noticing important things to hack.