9 ms·

Millionaire migration in 2015 [pdf]

44 points by randomname2 11y ago

tomp 11y ago
Interesting: > In our view , a Brexit w ill not result in an outflow of millionaires from the UK. On the contrary, we believe that wealthy UK citizens are more likely to stay in the UK if there is a Brexit. This view is backed up by the fact that most of the wealthy British people we interviewed voiced concern over the UK’s open border policy with Europe .
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  I really want to see what would happen to that theory after a Brexit. Would the economical/financial benefits of a closed border policy outweighs the economical/financial benefits of being a member of the European Union ? If so then that's really bad for Europe image, if not then that's really bad for those financial super powers to realize their judgments are really biased. The third option being: the analysts here really messed up and shouldn't make a connection between a stance on open border policy and an outflow as consequence.
imperialdrive 11y ago
Thanks for posting - very interesting read for someone thinking of moving due to, well, changing times...
mavdi 11y ago
Frankly I'm not surprised. Europe really seems to be in deep trouble from rising religious and racial tensions, slowing economy and lack of security. I would indeed emigrate if I had the cash and a wife that wasn't completely numb to what goes on in the world.
hebdo 11y ago
I've been seriously contemplating it for about a year now: is it the time to abandon Europe and find new life elsewhere? Asking for the honest HN opinion, is the old continent already the sinking ship? On one hand it is comforting to consider that there is ~1000 years of history of civilized Europe behind us, with rich culture, the discovery and development of science and, in general, prosperity. On the other, it took less than a century for the Western Roman Empire to collapse.
- Spooky23 11y ago
  Europe made a decision to move away from that history to something more like the US. Swedes and French don't have children, and they are importing Syrians and Africans who do. It's a similar scenario to what happened with the old Dutch and English people in 1860 Manhattan. The new masses of Irish and Jews drove many to leave. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but the future will be very different.
- charlesdm 11y ago
  Why would you leave Europe? Due to the developments in the last few years?
- tomp 11y ago
  Where would you want to go? In the US, you're more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist in Europe. Japan is peaceful for now, but has its own problems - rising tensions with China, proximity of North Korea, low economic opportunity. Same goes for most other developed Asian countries. Africa, Middle East, Russia, most of Asia and South America are less developed (AFAIK), in terms of social cohesion, healthcare, economic opportunity. The best options seem to be Australia and New Zealand, they are English-speaking, highly developed, peaceful, lawful and, most importantly, far away - a problem for some (e.g. if you have family members in other countries), but in case of major conflict, it will probably be a good idea. All in all, some perspective is in order. Europe is probably the strongest it's been in the past 100 years. There are 300 million inhabitants, so even 1M migrants is a drop in the bucket. There are no immediate threats from other nation-states, except possibly for a few countries bordering Russia - although even they seem focused more on the Middle East recently. Most European countries still have the strongest social security. On the other hand, the unexpected is just that, by definition. Chances are low, but it's possible that some crazy person does something crazy (Putin? Erdogan? A right-wing EU leader?). But that's true pretty much anywhere in the world.
  - abrookewood 11y ago
    Yeah, but in Australia we have sharks, snakes, spiders and drop bears .. don't forget the drop bears. Plus, our Internet is crappy (unless you're on the National Broadband Network) and we are something of a nanny state. Oh, and our housing is ridiculously expensive. But apart from that, everything is pretty good.
ameyamk 11y ago
why are so many rich people moving to Australia?
- basicplus2 11y ago
  As one VERY rich person said to me.. Australia is a rich persons playground
  - dbcurtis 11y ago
    What makes it so?
    - zavi 11y ago
      Conservative government http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook44p/Composition44th http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departm... https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=UN_DEN https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=UN_DEN http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
      - linkregister 11y ago
        Laughable, it's quite solidly Social Democratic. Strong unions, universal health care, full social safety net. It's way harder to fire an employee in Australia than in the United States. A rich person would move to Australia because it's safe and comfortable.
- evv555 11y ago
  Maybe because it's so close to China.
  - boeing 11y ago
    Common misconception, mate: Beijing to Sydney - 12h 0m flight time Beijing to LAX - 12h 0m Beijing to London - 11h 0m
cbeach 11y ago
Several of my smartest and most ambitious friends have emigrated from London to Aus and Japan. Destinations that have sensible immigration policies, and which have maintained their cultural integrity. A country is not a country without borders. When I emigrate I will choose a country based on its singular culture, and crucially, how well it maintains that culture. Why would I choose a country that's right for me now but risks changing in the future when I have kids there? Multi-ethnicity in London is great. Multiculturalism in London is a sickness. No one chooses to move here for "London's culture," because it doesn't have an identifiable culture. So people come here expecting to maintain their own culture in a bubble instead, resulting in ghettos, self-segregation and rising tension.
- caseydurfee 11y ago
  Is "sensible" a euphemism for "don't allow brown people in"? I've never heard Japan's immigration policies described as sensible before. Japan as a country is dying because of their low birthrate and overly restrictive immigration policies. What's sensible about that?
  - cbeach 11y ago
    "Sensible" is a euphemism for "don't allow religious fundamentalists with a deep-seated hatred of the West in" Additionally, this demographic (I won't name the religion - I'm sure you know the one I'm describing) has a male unemployment rate of 50% and female unemployment rate of 75% in the UK. You don't die as a country through low birthrates - this could only happen in a bygone era that required massive labourforce, agriculture, factory work etc. No - the modern economy does not require "throwing bodies at the problem." We are entering the age of automation, a having more humans in a country is not as important as having the smartest humans to build the automation. In fact having more humans in the country just creates an aging population timebomb. This problem is confounded by immigration. Not resolved by immigration. Immigrants age just like the rest of us.
    - mavdi 11y ago
      Literally every statement in this comment of yours needs a reliable source.
julie1 11y ago
Millionaires are fleeing their country to avoid penal liability. I am french, I have read Clinton's email, and I think they try to avoid investigations. And some have a lot on their plate. On one hand I think the country will be better without them, on the other one I still hope justice will be made. And I would like the welcoming countries to be aware some millionaires are rich by bending rules.
loeber 11y ago
Parts of this study seem dubious. Neither 'city' nor 'millionaire' is defined. The authors allege that rising religious tensions and a lack of opportunities are to blame for the French millionaire outflow. Is that the whole story? Could the aggressive tax rates and hurdles posed by regulation have more to do with it? Here's a fun fact: when Hollande's 75% tax rate was announced, waiting lists at some of the more expensive francophone Swiss boarding schools ballooned overnight. Make of that what you will. (NB this tax rate was introduced in 2013 and dropped in 2014.)
- filereaper 11y ago
  Millionaire is defined at the bottom under "Notes and Definitions" Here's the relevant text: “Millionaires” otherwise known as “high net worth individuals” or “HNWIs” refer to individuals with net assets of US$1 million or more excluding their primary residences
  - loeber 11y ago
    Oof, didn't catch that, sorry. I normally expect definitions etc. at the very start.
Retric 11y ago
Millionaire means little, if you have 1.0 million @ 4% your below the median US income. In large part this is tracking the migration of retired people.
- linkregister 11y ago
  I agree, they should change it to 10 million or qualify it with "1 million in assets excluding primary residence".
  - Retric 11y ago
    They do exclude their primary residences. But, many retired people downsize and they are looking at people who are moving anyway.
vm 11y ago
15%+ of the San Francisco population are millionaires! No wonder this city is outrageously expensive. San Francisco millionaires: 129,000. Population: 837,442 (2013)

44 points by randomname2 11y ago

tomp 11y ago

Interesting: > In our view , a Brexit w ill not result in an outflow of millionaires from the UK. On the contrary, we believe that wealthy UK citizens are more likely to stay in the UK if there is a Brexit. This view is backed up by the fact that most of the wealthy British people we interviewed voiced concern over the UK’s open border policy with Europe .

johnchristopher 11y ago
I really want to see what would happen to that theory after a Brexit. Would the economical/financial benefits of a closed border policy outweighs the economical/financial benefits of being a member of the European Union ? If so then that's really bad for Europe image, if not then that's really bad for those financial super powers to realize their judgments are really biased. The third option being: the analysts here really messed up and shouldn't make a connection between a stance on open border policy and an outflow as consequence.

imperialdrive 11y ago

Thanks for posting - very interesting read for someone thinking of moving due to, well, changing times...

mavdi 11y ago

Frankly I'm not surprised. Europe really seems to be in deep trouble from rising religious and racial tensions, slowing economy and lack of security. I would indeed emigrate if I had the cash and a wife that wasn't completely numb to what goes on in the world.

hebdo 11y ago

I've been seriously contemplating it for about a year now: is it the time to abandon Europe and find new life elsewhere? Asking for the honest HN opinion, is the old continent already the sinking ship? On one hand it is comforting to consider that there is ~1000 years of history of civilized Europe behind us, with rich culture, the discovery and development of science and, in general, prosperity. On the other, it took less than a century for the Western Roman Empire to collapse.

Spooky23 11y ago
Europe made a decision to move away from that history to something more like the US. Swedes and French don't have children, and they are importing Syrians and Africans who do. It's a similar scenario to what happened with the old Dutch and English people in 1860 Manhattan. The new masses of Irish and Jews drove many to leave. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but the future will be very different.
charlesdm 11y ago
Why would you leave Europe? Due to the developments in the last few years?
tomp 11y ago
Where would you want to go? In the US, you're more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist in Europe. Japan is peaceful for now, but has its own problems - rising tensions with China, proximity of North Korea, low economic opportunity. Same goes for most other developed Asian countries. Africa, Middle East, Russia, most of Asia and South America are less developed (AFAIK), in terms of social cohesion, healthcare, economic opportunity. The best options seem to be Australia and New Zealand, they are English-speaking, highly developed, peaceful, lawful and, most importantly, far away - a problem for some (e.g. if you have family members in other countries), but in case of major conflict, it will probably be a good idea. All in all, some perspective is in order. Europe is probably the strongest it's been in the past 100 years. There are 300 million inhabitants, so even 1M migrants is a drop in the bucket. There are no immediate threats from other nation-states, except possibly for a few countries bordering Russia - although even they seem focused more on the Middle East recently. Most European countries still have the strongest social security. On the other hand, the unexpected is just that, by definition. Chances are low, but it's possible that some crazy person does something crazy (Putin? Erdogan? A right-wing EU leader?). But that's true pretty much anywhere in the world.
- abrookewood 11y ago
  Yeah, but in Australia we have sharks, snakes, spiders and drop bears .. don't forget the drop bears. Plus, our Internet is crappy (unless you're on the National Broadband Network) and we are something of a nanny state. Oh, and our housing is ridiculously expensive. But apart from that, everything is pretty good.

ameyamk 11y ago

why are so many rich people moving to Australia?

basicplus2 11y ago
As one VERY rich person said to me.. Australia is a rich persons playground
- dbcurtis 11y ago
  What makes it so?
  - zavi 11y ago
    Conservative government http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook44p/Composition44th http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departm... https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=UN_DEN https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=UN_DEN http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
    - linkregister 11y ago
      Laughable, it's quite solidly Social Democratic. Strong unions, universal health care, full social safety net. It's way harder to fire an employee in Australia than in the United States. A rich person would move to Australia because it's safe and comfortable.
evv555 11y ago
Maybe because it's so close to China.
- boeing 11y ago
  Common misconception, mate: Beijing to Sydney - 12h 0m flight time Beijing to LAX - 12h 0m Beijing to London - 11h 0m

cbeach 11y ago

Several of my smartest and most ambitious friends have emigrated from London to Aus and Japan. Destinations that have sensible immigration policies, and which have maintained their cultural integrity. A country is not a country without borders. When I emigrate I will choose a country based on its singular culture, and crucially, how well it maintains that culture. Why would I choose a country that's right for me now but risks changing in the future when I have kids there? Multi-ethnicity in London is great. Multiculturalism in London is a sickness. No one chooses to move here for "London's culture," because it doesn't have an identifiable culture. So people come here expecting to maintain their own culture in a bubble instead, resulting in ghettos, self-segregation and rising tension.

caseydurfee 11y ago
Is "sensible" a euphemism for "don't allow brown people in"? I've never heard Japan's immigration policies described as sensible before. Japan as a country is dying because of their low birthrate and overly restrictive immigration policies. What's sensible about that?
- cbeach 11y ago
  "Sensible" is a euphemism for "don't allow religious fundamentalists with a deep-seated hatred of the West in" Additionally, this demographic (I won't name the religion - I'm sure you know the one I'm describing) has a male unemployment rate of 50% and female unemployment rate of 75% in the UK. You don't die as a country through low birthrates - this could only happen in a bygone era that required massive labourforce, agriculture, factory work etc. No - the modern economy does not require "throwing bodies at the problem." We are entering the age of automation, a having more humans in a country is not as important as having the smartest humans to build the automation. In fact having more humans in the country just creates an aging population timebomb. This problem is confounded by immigration. Not resolved by immigration. Immigrants age just like the rest of us.
  - mavdi 11y ago
    Literally every statement in this comment of yours needs a reliable source.

julie1 11y ago

Millionaires are fleeing their country to avoid penal liability. I am french, I have read Clinton's email, and I think they try to avoid investigations. And some have a lot on their plate. On one hand I think the country will be better without them, on the other one I still hope justice will be made. And I would like the welcoming countries to be aware some millionaires are rich by bending rules.

loeber 11y ago

Parts of this study seem dubious. Neither 'city' nor 'millionaire' is defined. The authors allege that rising religious tensions and a lack of opportunities are to blame for the French millionaire outflow. Is that the whole story? Could the aggressive tax rates and hurdles posed by regulation have more to do with it? Here's a fun fact: when Hollande's 75% tax rate was announced, waiting lists at some of the more expensive francophone Swiss boarding schools ballooned overnight. Make of that what you will. (NB this tax rate was introduced in 2013 and dropped in 2014.)

filereaper 11y ago
Millionaire is defined at the bottom under "Notes and Definitions" Here's the relevant text: “Millionaires” otherwise known as “high net worth individuals” or “HNWIs” refer to individuals with net assets of US$1 million or more excluding their primary residences
- loeber 11y ago
  Oof, didn't catch that, sorry. I normally expect definitions etc. at the very start.

Retric 11y ago

Millionaire means little, if you have 1.0 million @ 4% your below the median US income. In large part this is tracking the migration of retired people.

linkregister 11y ago
I agree, they should change it to 10 million or qualify it with "1 million in assets excluding primary residence".
- Retric 11y ago
  They do exclude their primary residences. But, many retired people downsize and they are looking at people who are moving anyway.

vm 11y ago

15%+ of the San Francisco population are millionaires! No wonder this city is outrageously expensive. San Francisco millionaires: 129,000. Population: 837,442 (2013)