5 ms·

> What is the motivation behind this? The README links to the explanation: https://ellacydawson.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/how-news-genius-silences-writers/ http

> What is the motivation behind this? The README links to the explanation: https://ellacydawson.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/how-news-genius-silences-writers/ https://ellacydawson.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/how-news-geniu...

MaxfordAndSons 11y ago
Odd, I don't see the link there. But anyway, reading Ms. Dawson's post does make me seriously reconsider the ethical motivations for making this tool. I suppose my initial negative reaction was more based on the 'platonic ideal of a universal web annotation layer' as gkop puts it, rather than an actual understanding of how the Genius platform operates. Here's another article with additional context: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336852/genius-annotation-controversy http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336852/genius-annotation-cont...
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  First, there's been tools like this for a while. MS had an annotations tool built into IE in the 90s. (Though I think it required some sort of Office server or something.) Second, her reasoning seems to revolve around not having comments on her site. Isn't this literally what every link aggregator from HN to reddit does? She mentions reddit and others, but doesn't explain how they're different. Apparently it's because people can "scribble" "on her website". This makes News Genius "worse than Twitter". I guess if reddit created a browser plugin she'd hate it too? >pasted in links to my tweets—which theoretically they should not have had access to, as I had blocked them both on Twitter How can you block anyone on Twitter and think it'll work? Just sign out and block's gone? >No one likes being questioned I think that sums up her attitude. Note I think her work is fine, but she's literally complaining about people discussing her work on other sites.
  - sosuke 11y ago
    >she's literally complaining about people discussing her work on other sites Things like this don't become a problem until it is so easily organized. A bunch of tweets, FB posts, HN, reddit or other social comments are so scattered they don't have as much impact. The comments aren't visible on the the same page as the content. I'm going to have to think more about this. I've had this thought a couple of times now but I don't have a full picture of it yet.
    - chatmasta 11y ago
      They are not visible on the same page as the content unless you have news genius installed or have navigated to the news genius proxy for that page. You need to opt in to see the comments. God forbid people can post organized opinions you disagree with...
      - wiredfool 11y ago
        Or if the proxy shows up in search results higher than the original site.
        chatmasta 11y ago
        Search indexing is disabled. http://genius.it/robots.txt http://genius.it/robots.txt
- welanes 11y ago
  Thanks for the link. The protestations are a little silly from what I gather. So this is the crux of it: Genius allows people to comment on stuff that people write - like an improved comment section. Occasionally these comments suck and are offensive. From the blog post: "News Genius adds one more way for people on the Internet to be made unsafe." and "A tool that allows my abusive ex-boyfriend to interact with me and my content is a tool that should not exist." The solipsism is laughable. The Internet will forever provide an infinite supply of trolls but when you publish on a public platform as opposed to behind a password protected blog or via email, people will talk about what you write (if you're lucky. many people publish in obscurity) and it just so happens that you may not always agree with what they say. The reflex to shut down rather than, say, ignore dissenting opinion is an odd but increasingly more common one.
  - sosuke 11y ago
    A new word for me! solipsism: the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
  - MaxfordAndSons 11y ago
    Yea, I agree that her reasoning isn't entirely well founded. But I'm nonetheless empathetic, because she's an embattled blogger fighting trolls to justify her work all the time, and the gap between that experience and the idealistic motivations for a universal annotation platform must be enormous. From our tech-centric perspectives, the value of a universal annotation platform seems self evident, but for a layman's perspective, it just seems like another toxic commenting layer that content creators can't moderate (which, in the ideal, it is). The fact that it's then collocated with their content, instead of, say, a click away on HN or twitter, makes it feel more violating. The truly ideal platform would have massive adoption with benevolent power users that both prevented abuse and generated value adding content by verifying factual claims, adding appropriate context, etc. This ideal use case is pretty far from Genius's original platform (explaining rap lyrics in an entertaining fashion), and that mismatch of intents seems to be the source of the problem.
ultramancool 11y ago
What a crock of shit. People installing an addon to comment on your content "silences writers" by making their readers actually think about the crap they write? God forbid people actually think. I'm so sick of this anti-commenting drivel promoting mindless belief. If you can't stand being questioned, please stop posting on the internet.

MaxfordAndSons 11y ago

Odd, I don't see the link there. But anyway, reading Ms. Dawson's post does make me seriously reconsider the ethical motivations for making this tool. I suppose my initial negative reaction was more based on the 'platonic ideal of a universal web annotation layer' as gkop puts it, rather than an actual understanding of how the Genius platform operates. Here's another article with additional context: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336852/genius-annotation-controversy http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336852/genius-annotation-cont...

MichaelGG 11y ago
First, there's been tools like this for a while. MS had an annotations tool built into IE in the 90s. (Though I think it required some sort of Office server or something.) Second, her reasoning seems to revolve around not having comments on her site. Isn't this literally what every link aggregator from HN to reddit does? She mentions reddit and others, but doesn't explain how they're different. Apparently it's because people can "scribble" "on her website". This makes News Genius "worse than Twitter". I guess if reddit created a browser plugin she'd hate it too? >pasted in links to my tweets—which theoretically they should not have had access to, as I had blocked them both on Twitter How can you block anyone on Twitter and think it'll work? Just sign out and block's gone? >No one likes being questioned I think that sums up her attitude. Note I think her work is fine, but she's literally complaining about people discussing her work on other sites.
- sosuke 11y ago
  >she's literally complaining about people discussing her work on other sites Things like this don't become a problem until it is so easily organized. A bunch of tweets, FB posts, HN, reddit or other social comments are so scattered they don't have as much impact. The comments aren't visible on the the same page as the content. I'm going to have to think more about this. I've had this thought a couple of times now but I don't have a full picture of it yet.
  - chatmasta 11y ago
    They are not visible on the same page as the content unless you have news genius installed or have navigated to the news genius proxy for that page. You need to opt in to see the comments. God forbid people can post organized opinions you disagree with...
    - wiredfool 11y ago
      Or if the proxy shows up in search results higher than the original site.
      - chatmasta 11y ago
        Search indexing is disabled. http://genius.it/robots.txt http://genius.it/robots.txt
welanes 11y ago
Thanks for the link. The protestations are a little silly from what I gather. So this is the crux of it: Genius allows people to comment on stuff that people write - like an improved comment section. Occasionally these comments suck and are offensive. From the blog post: "News Genius adds one more way for people on the Internet to be made unsafe." and "A tool that allows my abusive ex-boyfriend to interact with me and my content is a tool that should not exist." The solipsism is laughable. The Internet will forever provide an infinite supply of trolls but when you publish on a public platform as opposed to behind a password protected blog or via email, people will talk about what you write (if you're lucky. many people publish in obscurity) and it just so happens that you may not always agree with what they say. The reflex to shut down rather than, say, ignore dissenting opinion is an odd but increasingly more common one.
- sosuke 11y ago
  A new word for me! solipsism: the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
- MaxfordAndSons 11y ago
  Yea, I agree that her reasoning isn't entirely well founded. But I'm nonetheless empathetic, because she's an embattled blogger fighting trolls to justify her work all the time, and the gap between that experience and the idealistic motivations for a universal annotation platform must be enormous. From our tech-centric perspectives, the value of a universal annotation platform seems self evident, but for a layman's perspective, it just seems like another toxic commenting layer that content creators can't moderate (which, in the ideal, it is). The fact that it's then collocated with their content, instead of, say, a click away on HN or twitter, makes it feel more violating. The truly ideal platform would have massive adoption with benevolent power users that both prevented abuse and generated value adding content by verifying factual claims, adding appropriate context, etc. This ideal use case is pretty far from Genius's original platform (explaining rap lyrics in an entertaining fashion), and that mismatch of intents seems to be the source of the problem.

ultramancool 11y ago

What a crock of shit. People installing an addon to comment on your content "silences writers" by making their readers actually think about the crap they write? God forbid people actually think. I'm so sick of this anti-commenting drivel promoting mindless belief. If you can't stand being questioned, please stop posting on the internet.