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* facepalm * No room for nuance, huh? Or appreciation for the position CloudFlare is in and their obligation to their clients? How would you solve this? Abuse

* facepalm * No room for nuance, huh? Or appreciation for the position CloudFlare is in and their obligation to their clients? How would you solve this? Abuse from Tor IPs is a known and documented problem. If you have a solution, I'll bet CloudFlare has a job opening.

tsukassa 11y ago
If CloudFlare would at least let their client decide by themselves, that would be an awesome start. Even if it's enabled by default.
- ultramancool 11y ago
  They do this already. See their blog post. You can explicitly whitelist Tor IPs, I thought it was plan limited to only enterprise, but it seems it's available to all actually.
  - lqdc13 11y ago
    It's a fundamental problem with IP-based reputation. Same goes for VPNs where there isn't a specific list of hosts you can whitelist.
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
      IP based reputation has served us well, but it's no longer relevant. IPv4 has reached exhaustion, carrier-grade NAT is being deployed and the idea that an IP address correlates with one person or a very small group of people no longer holds. You can sort of pretend it does if you only serve america and europe, but that will change too. Any company that currently bases their offering on IP-based reputation better be working on different solutions to the problem or they're not going to stay relevant for long. This is an existential issue for CDNs.
jcoffland 11y ago
Absolutely not. I believe in privacy and have zero tolerance for big businesses who throw their weight around at the expense of minority communities (Tor users in this case). I understand CloudFlare's need to make a profit. That is why we need to turn treating Tor traffic like normal traffic into a good business decision.
- pathy 11y ago
  I think you underestimate how much of the traffic from Tor that is malicious. I have barely ever seen any legitimate Tor traffic, it has all been spam bots or other kinds of traffic I would rather avoid.
- drinchev 11y ago
  Why so much hate against CloudFlare? What's the big deal about being a "company" if you can see the CEO replying to you right here, right now? On top of that CloudFlare as a free service helped lots of small controversial, hated-by-some-government websites to stay alive. They protect >ANYONE< that is being DDoS-ed usually for free. If keeping freedom of speech ( as in "being online" ) for all those users they protect, for you is "at the expense of minority", I think you are totally biased.
- markonen 11y ago
  You misunderstand the problem. The issue is that CloudFlare is treating Tor traffic like any other traffic. What you want is special treatment for Tor above and beyond the whitelisting feature CloudFlare already offers to site owners.
  - falcolas 11y ago
    > CloudFlare is treating Tor traffic like any other traffic I don't see this in any practical fashion. I can visit a CloudFlare hosted site from the regular internet for hours (even scrape automatically) with no problems; the first time I hit the same site through Tor, it gets a double or triple capchca. Perhaps it should be a blacklist instead of a whitelist. Defaults matter.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
mirimir 11y ago
If CloudFlare keeps blocking Tor, the blocks will be circumvented. Unfortunately, it's the assholes who will figure that out first. But so it goes in war.

tsukassa 11y ago

If CloudFlare would at least let their client decide by themselves, that would be an awesome start. Even if it's enabled by default.

ultramancool 11y ago
They do this already. See their blog post. You can explicitly whitelist Tor IPs, I thought it was plan limited to only enterprise, but it seems it's available to all actually.
- lqdc13 11y ago
  It's a fundamental problem with IP-based reputation. Same goes for VPNs where there isn't a specific list of hosts you can whitelist.
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    IP based reputation has served us well, but it's no longer relevant. IPv4 has reached exhaustion, carrier-grade NAT is being deployed and the idea that an IP address correlates with one person or a very small group of people no longer holds. You can sort of pretend it does if you only serve america and europe, but that will change too. Any company that currently bases their offering on IP-based reputation better be working on different solutions to the problem or they're not going to stay relevant for long. This is an existential issue for CDNs.

jcoffland 11y ago

Absolutely not. I believe in privacy and have zero tolerance for big businesses who throw their weight around at the expense of minority communities (Tor users in this case). I understand CloudFlare's need to make a profit. That is why we need to turn treating Tor traffic like normal traffic into a good business decision.

pathy 11y ago
I think you underestimate how much of the traffic from Tor that is malicious. I have barely ever seen any legitimate Tor traffic, it has all been spam bots or other kinds of traffic I would rather avoid.
drinchev 11y ago
Why so much hate against CloudFlare? What's the big deal about being a "company" if you can see the CEO replying to you right here, right now? On top of that CloudFlare as a free service helped lots of small controversial, hated-by-some-government websites to stay alive. They protect >ANYONE< that is being DDoS-ed usually for free. If keeping freedom of speech ( as in "being online" ) for all those users they protect, for you is "at the expense of minority", I think you are totally biased.
markonen 11y ago
You misunderstand the problem. The issue is that CloudFlare is treating Tor traffic like any other traffic. What you want is special treatment for Tor above and beyond the whitelisting feature CloudFlare already offers to site owners.
- falcolas 11y ago
  > CloudFlare is treating Tor traffic like any other traffic I don't see this in any practical fashion. I can visit a CloudFlare hosted site from the regular internet for hours (even scrape automatically) with no problems; the first time I hit the same site through Tor, it gets a double or triple capchca. Perhaps it should be a blacklist instead of a whitelist. Defaults matter.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

mirimir 11y ago

If CloudFlare keeps blocking Tor, the blocks will be circumvented. Unfortunately, it's the assholes who will figure that out first. But so it goes in war.