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I think I am seeing a very interesting trend here on HN. The submissions that allow commenters to make fun of China tend to get a lot of attention than other su

I think I am seeing a very interesting trend here on HN. The submissions that allow commenters to make fun of China tend to get a lot of attention than other submissions that are not strictly related to technology. No coverage on terrorism or tragedies around the world, but a piece of news about a country trying to fight rumors by banning a foreign holiday gets onto the front page. If you actually study a bit about China, you would know that rumors are a huge problem and people are not cautious enough to verify them before getting tricked into believing them. People just love making fun of China, aren't they?

nostromo 11y ago
Or, it's just an interesting story. If India or Germany banned April Fool's Day, I imagine it would be treated similarly.
joantune 11y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs Had to post this :D
- paradite 11y ago
  This might be off-topic but thanks. Well I guess his campaign manager knows that US citizens respond well to the topic on China.
ta_04012016 11y ago
I think I am seeing a very patronizing smug here on HN. > If you actually study a bit about China I grow up in China, and I know that the root problem is that it's a one-party state. There is no election whatsoever and the country is owned and abused by princelings and government officials. Rural areas are underfunded and manipulated so that resources are concentrated in the major cities. The justice system is not broken, but has never been built. Thought crimes don't only exist but are also prosecuted. With all these serious problems, you are telling me rumors are a huge problem? Rumors are just a proxy. People are concerned about regional instability and human rights abuse, aren't they??
- paradite 11y ago
  Firstly I am very sorry for your experience growing up in China, but do note that many others grew up normally in China and continued on with their lives. I agree with all the problems that you listed, but I believe the spreading of rumors is a problem that has to be tackled. It is true that there are many more problems to attend to, but why not fix them one by one, starting from the most obvious ones like rumors.
  - nathanm412 11y ago
    Wouldn't a culture of rumors arising from a distrust of government press be better tackled by establishing freedom of the press rather than adding more restrictions?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - paradite 11y ago
      I do believe freedom of press is the way moving forward. However at the same time, restricting rumours (actual rumours that have no grounds or basis) for the time being would help for people who have less discretion to be better informed.
      - tamana 11y ago
        So only the government should be allowed to spread false information?
        paradite 11y ago
        Can you substantiate your claim?
        calbear81 11y ago
        The use of propaganda is well established within the PRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Rep...). I'm more interested in the idea that "rumors" are a problem that needs to be tackled and the best way to do so is to ban them and only trust what is coming from the government. Isn't this type of system ripe for abuse? Let's say a rumor was that a certain government official embezzled $100M Yuan, but it was true. Perhaps that would be very embarrassing for the central party and thus they issue a statement saying that is not the case. Isn't it the public that is hurt in this situation?
jmckib 11y ago
These submissions also tend to bring out the apologists for China's authoritarianism, such as yourself. As the article makes clear, they are banning April Fool's day because they don't want anyone to make the government look bad, not because rumors are dangerous. You fell for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
- paradite 11y ago
  I believe you are confused about facts and opinions. The fact is, and I quote: “'April Fools' Day' is not consistent with our cultural tradition, or socialist core values,” state news agency Xinhua announced on social media Friday. “Hope nobody believes in rumors, makes rumors or spreads rumors.” What you are suggesting is the opinion of the WSJ editor on this matter.
  - JoshTriplett 11y ago
    > “'April Fools' Day' is not consistent with our cultural tradition, or socialist core values,” Which is also an opinion. But opinions like that are frequently given the force of law, and that's why stories like these provoke strong reactions.
    - paradite 11y ago
      No. It is a fact. You need to respect China's cultural tradition and socialist core values, which value honesty and integrity over disingenuity. Yes I understand the culture of pranking may be prevalent in the West but it is certainly not in the roots of China's long culture.
      - tamana 11y ago
        This is a relatively well educated and intelligent forum population. Simplistic Communist Party propaganda isn't persuasively here. There are a few hundred too many billionaires in Chinese government for anyone to believe that honesty and integrity and socialism are Chinese government values. And the Chinese Communist government has no tradition -- is it a decent tyranny imposed on the Chinese people.
capote 11y ago
Are you by any chance a party member?
valas 11y ago
Why rumors are "a huge problem" in China? Is it because common folk is too easy to fool? If so, wouldn't April's fools day improve critical thinking?
- iliketosleep 11y ago
  in the Chinese education system critical thinking is not encouraged. "common folk" tend to believe what they are told without questioning it.
sora_aoi 11y ago
I understand that the HN community should be polite in discussing matters like this, but I do think your comment demonstrates utter ignorance. Note what the government calls rumors are often embarrasing news that the government wants to cover up. Legitimate news are often first reported by Reuters and other western media, and then in China. Sometimes true stories that circulate outside of China are never reported domestically. For example, the former premier of China has huge wealth overseas [1]. The Chinese government is suppressing free media and transparent information by cracking down on jokes/rumors. I have no idea what the h* you are doing here. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/business/global/family-of-wen-jiabao-holds-a-hidden-fortune-in-china.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/business/global/family-of-...
seivan 11y ago
I noticed this as well but never thought more of it. You're absolutely right. Could be because China doesn't play the "diversity" game and values meriotcracy with Confucius values (Like LKYs Singapore). That doesn't sit well with the SF crowd here. Especially the mods and the Guardian loving faux mod.
xjpis250 11y ago
I like to make fun of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) not China. Please don't confuse these two concepts again and again. CCP or Chinese goverment is evil. They don't deserve any respect. 中国人民是中国政府的最大受害者。
justinlardinois 11y ago
> If you actually study a bit about China, you would know that rumors are a huge problem and people are not cautious enough to verify them before getting tricked into believing them. Rumors spread quickly in the United States too, often through Facebook and Twitter. We even have a website dedicated to debunking them (snopes.com). But we don't see rumors that Trader Joe's is going out of business, the Weather Channel switching to Celsius, or that the president is a Muslim as a particular problem or a justification for totalitarianism.
- paradite 11y ago
  Trust me, there are people in China and around the world working against the Chinese government specifically (you can spot some of them as the new accounts created just to add accusations as replies to my comment) that create very good rumours that look very genuine. They put in much more efforts into crafting their speeches in order to make them look real and trick people into believing in them, nothing like the April Fool's joke. Hence it is a very difficult task to fight rumours in China, especially when people are having trust issues with the government.
  - justinlardinois 11y ago
    You're not too far from teetering into the "everyone who disagrees with me is a shill" mentality. > it is a very difficult task to fight rumours in China, especially when people are having trust issues with the government. Is distrust of government such a bad thing? Here in the United States it's pretty much a founding value.
    - paradite 11y ago
      I understand why you would feel that way. In fact if I were grown up in the US or the west, I would reply the same thing. The thing that many westerners like you do not understand, is that it's not simply a fight between China and the free world, there are other parties that deliberately paint China black and the free world would gladly welcome them as their allies. So when there is overwhelming evidence that China is bad, combined by the good investigative journalism and the rumors created by the 3rd parties, it's hard to distinguish one from another. Now, there are plenty of people who disagree with me, some of them are good people, they present evidence and facts, and I do not try to argue my way out. But at the same time I had to recognize that there are people who pretend to be genuinely interested in freedom of speech but with the hidden agenda, which I had to disagree with. The problem here is that the two are often mixed together, in news articles and on Wikipedia, hence it would appear that people like me are lunatic and having the mentality you described above.

nostromo 11y ago

Or, it's just an interesting story. If India or Germany banned April Fool's Day, I imagine it would be treated similarly.

joantune 11y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs Had to post this :D

paradite 11y ago
This might be off-topic but thanks. Well I guess his campaign manager knows that US citizens respond well to the topic on China.

ta_04012016 11y ago

I think I am seeing a very patronizing smug here on HN. > If you actually study a bit about China I grow up in China, and I know that the root problem is that it's a one-party state. There is no election whatsoever and the country is owned and abused by princelings and government officials. Rural areas are underfunded and manipulated so that resources are concentrated in the major cities. The justice system is not broken, but has never been built. Thought crimes don't only exist but are also prosecuted. With all these serious problems, you are telling me rumors are a huge problem? Rumors are just a proxy. People are concerned about regional instability and human rights abuse, aren't they??

paradite 11y ago
Firstly I am very sorry for your experience growing up in China, but do note that many others grew up normally in China and continued on with their lives. I agree with all the problems that you listed, but I believe the spreading of rumors is a problem that has to be tackled. It is true that there are many more problems to attend to, but why not fix them one by one, starting from the most obvious ones like rumors.
- nathanm412 11y ago
  Wouldn't a culture of rumors arising from a distrust of government press be better tackled by establishing freedom of the press rather than adding more restrictions?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - paradite 11y ago
    I do believe freedom of press is the way moving forward. However at the same time, restricting rumours (actual rumours that have no grounds or basis) for the time being would help for people who have less discretion to be better informed.
    - tamana 11y ago
      So only the government should be allowed to spread false information?
      - paradite 11y ago
        Can you substantiate your claim?
        calbear81 11y ago
        The use of propaganda is well established within the PRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Rep...). I'm more interested in the idea that "rumors" are a problem that needs to be tackled and the best way to do so is to ban them and only trust what is coming from the government. Isn't this type of system ripe for abuse? Let's say a rumor was that a certain government official embezzled $100M Yuan, but it was true. Perhaps that would be very embarrassing for the central party and thus they issue a statement saying that is not the case. Isn't it the public that is hurt in this situation?

jmckib 11y ago

These submissions also tend to bring out the apologists for China's authoritarianism, such as yourself. As the article makes clear, they are banning April Fool's day because they don't want anyone to make the government look bad, not because rumors are dangerous. You fell for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

paradite 11y ago
I believe you are confused about facts and opinions. The fact is, and I quote: “'April Fools' Day' is not consistent with our cultural tradition, or socialist core values,” state news agency Xinhua announced on social media Friday. “Hope nobody believes in rumors, makes rumors or spreads rumors.” What you are suggesting is the opinion of the WSJ editor on this matter.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  > “'April Fools' Day' is not consistent with our cultural tradition, or socialist core values,” Which is also an opinion. But opinions like that are frequently given the force of law, and that's why stories like these provoke strong reactions.
  - paradite 11y ago
    No. It is a fact. You need to respect China's cultural tradition and socialist core values, which value honesty and integrity over disingenuity. Yes I understand the culture of pranking may be prevalent in the West but it is certainly not in the roots of China's long culture.
    - tamana 11y ago
      This is a relatively well educated and intelligent forum population. Simplistic Communist Party propaganda isn't persuasively here. There are a few hundred too many billionaires in Chinese government for anyone to believe that honesty and integrity and socialism are Chinese government values. And the Chinese Communist government has no tradition -- is it a decent tyranny imposed on the Chinese people.

capote 11y ago

Are you by any chance a party member?

valas 11y ago

Why rumors are "a huge problem" in China? Is it because common folk is too easy to fool? If so, wouldn't April's fools day improve critical thinking?

iliketosleep 11y ago
in the Chinese education system critical thinking is not encouraged. "common folk" tend to believe what they are told without questioning it.

sora_aoi 11y ago

I understand that the HN community should be polite in discussing matters like this, but I do think your comment demonstrates utter ignorance. Note what the government calls rumors are often embarrasing news that the government wants to cover up. Legitimate news are often first reported by Reuters and other western media, and then in China. Sometimes true stories that circulate outside of China are never reported domestically. For example, the former premier of China has huge wealth overseas [1]. The Chinese government is suppressing free media and transparent information by cracking down on jokes/rumors. I have no idea what the h* you are doing here. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/business/global/family-of-wen-jiabao-holds-a-hidden-fortune-in-china.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/business/global/family-of-...

seivan 11y ago

I noticed this as well but never thought more of it. You're absolutely right. Could be because China doesn't play the "diversity" game and values meriotcracy with Confucius values (Like LKYs Singapore). That doesn't sit well with the SF crowd here. Especially the mods and the Guardian loving faux mod.

xjpis250 11y ago

I like to make fun of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) not China. Please don't confuse these two concepts again and again. CCP or Chinese goverment is evil. They don't deserve any respect. 中国人民是中国政府的最大受害者。

justinlardinois 11y ago

> If you actually study a bit about China, you would know that rumors are a huge problem and people are not cautious enough to verify them before getting tricked into believing them. Rumors spread quickly in the United States too, often through Facebook and Twitter. We even have a website dedicated to debunking them (snopes.com). But we don't see rumors that Trader Joe's is going out of business, the Weather Channel switching to Celsius, or that the president is a Muslim as a particular problem or a justification for totalitarianism.

paradite 11y ago
Trust me, there are people in China and around the world working against the Chinese government specifically (you can spot some of them as the new accounts created just to add accusations as replies to my comment) that create very good rumours that look very genuine. They put in much more efforts into crafting their speeches in order to make them look real and trick people into believing in them, nothing like the April Fool's joke. Hence it is a very difficult task to fight rumours in China, especially when people are having trust issues with the government.
- justinlardinois 11y ago
  You're not too far from teetering into the "everyone who disagrees with me is a shill" mentality. > it is a very difficult task to fight rumours in China, especially when people are having trust issues with the government. Is distrust of government such a bad thing? Here in the United States it's pretty much a founding value.
  - paradite 11y ago
    I understand why you would feel that way. In fact if I were grown up in the US or the west, I would reply the same thing. The thing that many westerners like you do not understand, is that it's not simply a fight between China and the free world, there are other parties that deliberately paint China black and the free world would gladly welcome them as their allies. So when there is overwhelming evidence that China is bad, combined by the good investigative journalism and the rumors created by the 3rd parties, it's hard to distinguish one from another. Now, there are plenty of people who disagree with me, some of them are good people, they present evidence and facts, and I do not try to argue my way out. But at the same time I had to recognize that there are people who pretend to be genuinely interested in freedom of speech but with the hidden agenda, which I had to disagree with. The problem here is that the two are often mixed together, in news articles and on Wikipedia, hence it would appear that people like me are lunatic and having the mentality you described above.