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this is incredible. According to the article he backed out of the shares because of possible liability of the deal went south, but that doesn't make sense. If t

this is incredible. According to the article he backed out of the shares because of possible liability of the deal went south, but that doesn't make sense. If they incorporated his personal assets would not be up for grabs if the company couldn't pay it's debt. Also the fact that he did this means that he does care about financial stability and this seemed like a bad investment. In either case, it's impossible to predict these things so statistically he probably made the right move, but what bad luck!! Im surprised Steve didn't get him back into apple once they were well off, or maybe there is more to this story.

CapitalistCartr 11y ago
Jobs even ripped off Woz when the opportunity presented itself. He was the last person to give any part of "his" baby away. "When they made Breakout for Atari, Wozniak and Jobs were going to split the pay 50-50. Atari gave Jobs $5000 to do the job. He told Wozniak he got $700 so Wozniak took home $350."
- cjslep 11y ago
  You may be curious to know Woz does not hold it against Steve Jobs. He clarified that with me before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706690
  - bithush 11y ago
    Woz seems to be such a gentle and kind guy who just loves tech and gadgets. I don't think I have ever read of anyone having a problem with him. Pretty interesting as most people at such a high level in any sector (not just IT) are usually known to be assholes.
    - CaptSpify 11y ago
      I've always felt that if people idolized Woz more than Jobs, the world would be a better place. That's probably just my own tinkerer/engineer bias coming to light though.
      - bithush 11y ago
        You're not alone. Woz seems like a really great guy. He has a big heart. When I think of what a true hacker is I think of Woz. A person who loves tech and to tinker but for the better for others and not just himself.
      - agumonkey 11y ago
        You don't idolize when you know enough to understand what Wozniak does. Jobs appeals to the religious side in the average people.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    Wozniak is so rounded when it come to relationship I think he has an issue with having issues. He is always too nice. I also think nothing applies to their relationship, I bet it was some kind of family relationship at one point. Being in this venture together, at that time. You take the hit because of the greater bond it built.
RobAley 11y ago
I don't know what it was like back then, but these days (at least here in the UK) banks want personal guarantees from directors/owners etc. for business loans, even to Ltd companies.
sbuttgereit 11y ago
With micro-businesses that are incorporated, where you have one, two, or even three people involved, it can be fairly hard to maintain the legal wall that separates your personal assets from the business. I am part of a two person LLC. If I didn't have, say, the right kinds of liability insurance, a creditor could make the claim that the corporation really doesn't exist and go for my personal assets. If bank accounts are co-mingled, all bets are off. The list goes on of activities and facts that can, regardless of corporate legal filings, take you back to the state of sole proprietorship or partnership. On top of that, the cost of defending that status in the event of a suit can be nasty to boot.
mikeash 11y ago
Getting a loan for a small company often involves the owners guaranteeing the loan, because small companies tend to fail and banks don't like being left unpaid. If the loan was to the company with no extra terms then yes, he would be free and clear, but the bank probably wouldn't agree to that.

CapitalistCartr 11y ago

Jobs even ripped off Woz when the opportunity presented itself. He was the last person to give any part of "his" baby away. "When they made Breakout for Atari, Wozniak and Jobs were going to split the pay 50-50. Atari gave Jobs $5000 to do the job. He told Wozniak he got $700 so Wozniak took home $350."

cjslep 11y ago
You may be curious to know Woz does not hold it against Steve Jobs. He clarified that with me before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706690
- bithush 11y ago
  Woz seems to be such a gentle and kind guy who just loves tech and gadgets. I don't think I have ever read of anyone having a problem with him. Pretty interesting as most people at such a high level in any sector (not just IT) are usually known to be assholes.
  - CaptSpify 11y ago
    I've always felt that if people idolized Woz more than Jobs, the world would be a better place. That's probably just my own tinkerer/engineer bias coming to light though.
    - bithush 11y ago
      You're not alone. Woz seems like a really great guy. He has a big heart. When I think of what a true hacker is I think of Woz. A person who loves tech and to tinker but for the better for others and not just himself.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      You don't idolize when you know enough to understand what Wozniak does. Jobs appeals to the religious side in the average people.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Wozniak is so rounded when it come to relationship I think he has an issue with having issues. He is always too nice. I also think nothing applies to their relationship, I bet it was some kind of family relationship at one point. Being in this venture together, at that time. You take the hit because of the greater bond it built.

RobAley 11y ago

I don't know what it was like back then, but these days (at least here in the UK) banks want personal guarantees from directors/owners etc. for business loans, even to Ltd companies.

sbuttgereit 11y ago

With micro-businesses that are incorporated, where you have one, two, or even three people involved, it can be fairly hard to maintain the legal wall that separates your personal assets from the business. I am part of a two person LLC. If I didn't have, say, the right kinds of liability insurance, a creditor could make the claim that the corporation really doesn't exist and go for my personal assets. If bank accounts are co-mingled, all bets are off. The list goes on of activities and facts that can, regardless of corporate legal filings, take you back to the state of sole proprietorship or partnership. On top of that, the cost of defending that status in the event of a suit can be nasty to boot.

mikeash 11y ago

Getting a loan for a small company often involves the owners guaranteeing the loan, because small companies tend to fail and banks don't like being left unpaid. If the loan was to the company with no extra terms then yes, he would be free and clear, but the bank probably wouldn't agree to that.