5 ms·
A couple of counter points 1.) Design is subjective. I for one think while the Model S looks great, the X and 3 do not look that attractive. 2.) I really don'
by WrkInProgress 11y ago
A couple of counter points
1.) Design is subjective. I for one think while the Model S looks great, the X and 3 do not look that attractive.
2.) I really don't think "faster" really means much when are you talking about the majority of the mainstream automobile market. Top speed is low on the list of priorities for the average consumer.
3.) Cheaper is not free. I would save about $70 (based on today's gas prices in Ontario, Canada) per month in gasoline costs, but it would still cost me about $60 a month in electricity costs to do an average of 20,000 km a year.
4.) Production capability, supply chain and support network can not be overlooked. Tesla struggled to get 50,000 cars out last year. BMW sold north of 2 million cars in 2015. I recognize Tesla is growing day by day, but 50,000 to 2 million is a big jump.
- dragontamer 11y agoTo be fair, acceleration speed is most important, and zero-to-sixty in 6 seconds is competitive against $30k cars. (The fastest cars in this price range... like Ford Focus RS... is zero-to-sixty in 4.7 seconds. $35,900 for the RS.) Everyone appreciates a speedy acceleration, when merging into highways or getting out of the way. Its far more important to be quick on acceleration than to have a top-speed.
- sgeisenh 11y ago6 seconds is fast for a luxury sedan, but there are plenty of cars for less than $30k that will do zero-to-sixty in under 6 seconds. The Subaru WRX does 0-60 in under 5 seconds and costs ~$26k. That's the only 4 door car I can think of that's quite that quick, but there are plenty of performance oriented cars in that price range that are very quick.
- 11402101 11y ago0-60 in 6 seconds is really not all that fast anymore. Source: https://www.0-60specs.com/0-60-times/ https://www.0-60specs.com/0-60-times/ Even the Volvo XC90 managed to slide under the bar at exactly 6 seconds. You really have to work hard to move downmarket enough to still be over 6. Sorry Kia owners.
- dragontamer 11y agoYeah, this is more about what I was getting towards. Tesla Model 3 isn't breaking any records. I can think of plenty of cars in the price range that is that fast actually (and as you noted, the WRX definitely undercuts the Tesla significantly in price). But in my experience, zero-to-sixty in 6 seconds is a good speed. Its not "slow", and should be fast enough to feel somewhat luxurious. The Subaru WRX, and Ford Focus RS are performance-oriented cars after all. They happen to also be good daily drivers. Performance-oriented drivers will stick with Subaru WRX / Focus RS because the real time performance people care about is the Laguna Seca lap-time (or other lap times on famous tracks)... a combination of cornering speed, handling, acceleration, AND braking to test all aspects of the car. Zero-to-sixty in 6-seconds isn't amazing, and the M3 likely won't do Leguna Seca very well (Model S overheats for example and is forced to slow down. Its probably something to do with electric motors) https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-seca-lap-times https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-s... And there's the Subaru WRX, beating out the Model S on Leguna Seca by a few seconds, let alone the Model 3. So yeah, people who care about overall performance aren't going to be getting any of the Teslas any time soon. ---------- So the real selling point is the electric car value. The question is if the Model 3 can actually deliver. Its still a concept-car, a lot of things are going to change between now and "late 2017", probably 2018 when the cars actually come out for most people. The GM Bolt is launching this year. BMW is launching their electrics soon. Tesla has a leg up inside of the electric market IMO, but I'm curious to see if the M3 actually gets widespread adoption. And no, I don't think a refundable $1000 deposit really counts as a real sale.
- erikpukinskis 11y agoThe other thing to remember is the Model 3 will still have that "100% torque from a full stop" feel that gives the Model S it's kick. I suspect it will feel much faster than an ICE with the same 0-60 speed.
- dragontamer 11y agoI doubt it'd be much better than any manual car reving up to 4000 RPM and then dropping the clutch. You can squeal the wheels of even low-power engines with that technique. Frankly, zero-to-sixty in 6 seconds WITHOUT shifting and with 100% standing torque is kind of... awful actually. I suspect the opposite, when a ICE engine hits 4000 to 6000 RPM and the torque kicks in, you'll be accelerating far stronger than the smooth acceleration a Model 3 will give you. Consider a jerky zero-to-sixty with three gear shifts on your typical manual car (say... Ford Focus ST or RS), in contrast to the smooth acceleration from like a Nissan or a Subaru WRX. You definitely feel more G forces from the Focus, while the WRX only beats the other car because the CVT engine never has to "stop" for the gearshift. Similarly, I'd expect the smooth acceleration on the Model 3 to have less peak G-forces than a manual car. It will happen to be a smooth and constant acceleration, but there's a HUGE difference in Model 3 vs Model S acceleration. And I hope people aren't getting their hopes up.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- superuser2 11y agoVolkswagen GTI is 5.8s for $26k.
- usaphp 11y ago> "Tesla struggled to get 50,000 cars out last year. BMW sold north of 2 million cars in 2015" Please do not compare all the models BMW sold with a single Tesla Model S. BMW only sold 142,000 of 3 series in 2014. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/bmw-3-series-sales-figures.html http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/bmw-3-series-sales-figu...
- refurb 11y agoI disagree. His comment was in regards to "production capability, supply chain and support network". The fact is that BMW produced 40x more vehicles in 2015, which would suggest their supply chain and support network is much more robust.
- reustle 11y agoHis point was that the supply chain is there and working well. Tesla has a non-trivial amount of work to do to be able to catch up to those sorts of production numbers.