4 ms·

> If you buy a conventional car, your interaction with the people who made it has ended. With Tesla, that interaction has only just begun. There's something u

by valine 11y ago

> If you buy a conventional car, your interaction with the people who made it has ended. With Tesla, that interaction has only just begun. There's something unnerving about this. Your car has access to so much information about you. Where you go, where you work, what stores you like to shop at, and what restaurants you like. To me, a car is a tool. When I purchase a car, I'm purchasing The engine, the wheels, and the right to use the software running behind the scenes. I couldn't care less about forging a one sided, Orwellian relationship with a large company. Even if that company is freakishly awesome.

ttam 11y ago
I assume you're not using a smartphone?
throwawaytenmil 11y ago
Welp, enjoy using your phone buddy!
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  I'm not your buddy, friend!
toomuchtodo 11y ago
Different strokes. Tesla can have my $50K-100K. I'm buying everything you're worried about.
- supercoder 11y ago
  It's ugly and bad value. There will be better options in 2 years.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I have money to spend on things I don't have to wait for.
revscat 11y ago
Maybe, but I am coming to believe more and more that battling climate change will require a fundamental reexamination of core principles, up to and including privacy. I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion.
- panic 11y ago
  What does this have to do with climate change?
  - michaelchisari 11y ago
    I assume that the value of metrics acquired can help a lot when determining efficiency in driving habits.
mehrdada 11y ago
I believe most modern cars you buy today (even low-end ones) have a GSM modem connected to a phone carrier which is probably active regardless of your payment for the "connected" features, so not much better unless you figure out a way to pull its power.
- jd20 11y ago
  You could remove the SIM card I suppose. On some cars this is super easy (it just pops right out of the dash), on the Model S unfortunately its a lot harder to access (but still doable). And while most cars seem designed to do just fine when you pop out the SIM, nothing prevents Tesla from making the car inoperable without the SIM (I have no idea what the current behavior is, just speculating).
  - mehrdada 11y ago
    I did not look hard, but didn't find an obvious location to remove the SIM from my Mercedes. It is certainly undocumented in the owner's manual. Note that [depending on the modem], simply removing the SIM might not be enough to turn the radio off. It might still try connecting to the network and naturally send your IMEI to the carrier. For instance, handsets are usually configured so you can call emergency numbers without SIM cards. They need to reach out to a network to do so. You might still be tracked. It's better to make sure it is not powered. I agree that Tesla probably takes the Orwellian issues to a whole new level, but I'm not sure this sort of lockdown would be limited to EVs for long.
- eximius 11y ago
  source? If so, I may need to go to my garage for a sec....
  - mikeyouse 11y ago
    If your car has any "Telematics" system (OnStar, mBrace, ConnectedDrive, Car-Net, etc.) it definitely uses a SIM card to phone home. It varies based on the car, but I know as of ~MY2012, every single GM car comes standard with the OnStar functionality. I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers are the same.
marincounty 11y ago
I'm with you. I don't want a relationship with company. Conventional modern vechicles might not track your movements, but they keep you tied to the mothership/dealership after purchase. These conventional modern vechicles are complicated. They are loaded with propriatiatry features, unbelievably complicated emmission devices, and computers I can't access--even if I spend 5 grand on the right scanner. (If they will sell to an owner?) That vechicle in the movie Vacation comes to mind. These modern vechicles, not Elan's, are just a time bomb waiting to break down. Good luck finding an independent shop that knows how to efficiently repair these modern masterpieces. Most people are going to have a relationship with a dealership, at dealership prices. I just got smogged a '87 Toyota yesterday. What I spent on parts/my labor was rediculious. Yea--it passed, but it's rediculious how stringent CARB has gotten. My little car is not a threat to the enviornment. Plus, how much carbon did I spare the enviornment by not buying a new vechicle every few years? This rant is Not about Tesla. I understand why they need access to most of the vechicle's electronics. It's about these conventional vechicles you people are buying. I want a vechicle that I can keep for a long time. If things don't change, I forsee throwaway vechicles. Essentially a bunch of bricks. Maybe that's what they want. "Oh they will just by the newer version? They loved the voice assisted gps? I'm driving around my old vechicle that's running a stoichiometric number of 14.7:1. Meaning it's running well. I'm throwing out 20 ppm's of HC. 02 was .1 percent. My CO was .04 at idle. My N0 was 0 due to a $300 catalytic converter. In California, my little 4 banger is a horrid high emitter? Good luck smogging these newer vechicles when that warranty runs out. Good luck repairing these overly modernized vechicles. They will break down.
- illumin8 11y ago
  Tesla vehicles are almost solid state devices, with relatively few moving parts compared to an ICE equipped vehicle. I have an electric leaf blower, that never requires maintenance, lubrication, oil changes, etc. My next door neighbor has an ICE powered leaf blower and has to change the oil and lubricate it every season. I'm not sure how you can argue that an ICE equipped vehicle will be easier to maintain than a fully electric one. Smog? There is no smog on an EV - it's zero emissions.
illumin8 11y ago
If you want to build truly autonomous cars, data capture and analysis of the data that is gathered will be mandatory. Provided Tesla performs a reasonable job of anonymizing the data and not storing personally identifiable information, I'm fine with it. If it gives us self driving cars a couple years earlier than we would have otherwise, I think it's worth the tradeoff.

by valine 11y ago

ttam 11y ago

I assume you're not using a smartphone?

throwawaytenmil 11y ago

Welp, enjoy using your phone buddy!

Cthulhu_ 11y ago
I'm not your buddy, friend!

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Different strokes. Tesla can have my $50K-100K. I'm buying everything you're worried about.

supercoder 11y ago
It's ugly and bad value. There will be better options in 2 years.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I have money to spend on things I don't have to wait for.

revscat 11y ago

Maybe, but I am coming to believe more and more that battling climate change will require a fundamental reexamination of core principles, up to and including privacy. I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion.

panic 11y ago
What does this have to do with climate change?
- michaelchisari 11y ago
  I assume that the value of metrics acquired can help a lot when determining efficiency in driving habits.

mehrdada 11y ago

I believe most modern cars you buy today (even low-end ones) have a GSM modem connected to a phone carrier which is probably active regardless of your payment for the "connected" features, so not much better unless you figure out a way to pull its power.

jd20 11y ago
You could remove the SIM card I suppose. On some cars this is super easy (it just pops right out of the dash), on the Model S unfortunately its a lot harder to access (but still doable). And while most cars seem designed to do just fine when you pop out the SIM, nothing prevents Tesla from making the car inoperable without the SIM (I have no idea what the current behavior is, just speculating).
- mehrdada 11y ago
  I did not look hard, but didn't find an obvious location to remove the SIM from my Mercedes. It is certainly undocumented in the owner's manual. Note that [depending on the modem], simply removing the SIM might not be enough to turn the radio off. It might still try connecting to the network and naturally send your IMEI to the carrier. For instance, handsets are usually configured so you can call emergency numbers without SIM cards. They need to reach out to a network to do so. You might still be tracked. It's better to make sure it is not powered. I agree that Tesla probably takes the Orwellian issues to a whole new level, but I'm not sure this sort of lockdown would be limited to EVs for long.
eximius 11y ago
source? If so, I may need to go to my garage for a sec....
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  If your car has any "Telematics" system (OnStar, mBrace, ConnectedDrive, Car-Net, etc.) it definitely uses a SIM card to phone home. It varies based on the car, but I know as of ~MY2012, every single GM car comes standard with the OnStar functionality. I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers are the same.

marincounty 11y ago

I'm with you. I don't want a relationship with company. Conventional modern vechicles might not track your movements, but they keep you tied to the mothership/dealership after purchase. These conventional modern vechicles are complicated. They are loaded with propriatiatry features, unbelievably complicated emmission devices, and computers I can't access--even if I spend 5 grand on the right scanner. (If they will sell to an owner?) That vechicle in the movie Vacation comes to mind. These modern vechicles, not Elan's, are just a time bomb waiting to break down. Good luck finding an independent shop that knows how to efficiently repair these modern masterpieces. Most people are going to have a relationship with a dealership, at dealership prices. I just got smogged a '87 Toyota yesterday. What I spent on parts/my labor was rediculious. Yea--it passed, but it's rediculious how stringent CARB has gotten. My little car is not a threat to the enviornment. Plus, how much carbon did I spare the enviornment by not buying a new vechicle every few years? This rant is Not about Tesla. I understand why they need access to most of the vechicle's electronics. It's about these conventional vechicles you people are buying. I want a vechicle that I can keep for a long time. If things don't change, I forsee throwaway vechicles. Essentially a bunch of bricks. Maybe that's what they want. "Oh they will just by the newer version? They loved the voice assisted gps? I'm driving around my old vechicle that's running a stoichiometric number of 14.7:1. Meaning it's running well. I'm throwing out 20 ppm's of HC. 02 was .1 percent. My CO was .04 at idle. My N0 was 0 due to a $300 catalytic converter. In California, my little 4 banger is a horrid high emitter? Good luck smogging these newer vechicles when that warranty runs out. Good luck repairing these overly modernized vechicles. They will break down.

illumin8 11y ago
Tesla vehicles are almost solid state devices, with relatively few moving parts compared to an ICE equipped vehicle. I have an electric leaf blower, that never requires maintenance, lubrication, oil changes, etc. My next door neighbor has an ICE powered leaf blower and has to change the oil and lubricate it every season. I'm not sure how you can argue that an ICE equipped vehicle will be easier to maintain than a fully electric one. Smog? There is no smog on an EV - it's zero emissions.

illumin8 11y ago

If you want to build truly autonomous cars, data capture and analysis of the data that is gathered will be mandatory. Provided Tesla performs a reasonable job of anonymizing the data and not storing personally identifiable information, I'm fine with it. If it gives us self driving cars a couple years earlier than we would have otherwise, I think it's worth the tradeoff.