3 ms·

Man... it's so disheartening to read about these things. I feel like even if I reduce all my emissions to the best of my ability - use only renewable energy, do

by barbs 11y ago

Man... it's so disheartening to read about these things. I feel like even if I reduce all my emissions to the best of my ability - use only renewable energy, don't eat meat, don't drive etc - my net effect is only a drop in the ocean compared to catastrophes like this. And this is a total accident: it's not something that could be blamed on apathy, or laziness. Maybe negligence? But it feels like the expulsion of carbon gases is so hard to stop even with good intentions. I can't help but feel so powerless against this.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
beatpanda 11y ago
You're right, your personal contributions don't mean a lot because you're making choices in an economic system engineered, physically and politically, to favor fossil fuels. Something like a decade ago, activists switched gears from "consumer choice" campaigns to regulatory and physical sabotage of fossil fuel extraction and infrastructure. Don't worry about your car, but do help those committed nerds showing up to regulatory hearings in your area. The Bay Area has several of these infrastructure fights going on as we speak.
JoshCole 11y ago
You are a human. You are capable of going to a different planet. Communicating with me over a temporal and spacial gap is trivial to you. You are likely a programmer; creating tools which allow for that communication is within your ability. We're made in God's image. Making planets that are habitable, therefore, is within the ken of our image. Also we're responsible for having dominion over this planet and all the critters and plants that are in it. In China, they have a program to help clean the air in which they shoot the pollution out of the sky with water cannons. A hundred years ago there weren't any cars or commercial planes. There are solutions. There are even solutions that we would be blown away by; whats to stop a drone collection army that re-collects released emissions or a bio-logical version which does something similar? We aren't powerless. In the tower of Babel, man wanted to build a tower that would them reach the heavens. God stepped in and put a stop to it, confusing language. We can do things that are amazing and we can do things that are terrible. Humans are so capable that when they set their mind to do something, it takes an act of God to stop them. Do you see fish getting out of their cage and walking on the moon? If you do, your species put them there. I'm going to go back to writing out things which make the world behave as I order it to now. I want people in one location to be able to watch things in another location without going there; and I want them to see invisible features of the things like an audit log of what occurred there. Not clairvoyance though, just our usual so every day that it has become normal science-fiction-like world.
mikekchar 11y ago
Generally people are not evil. They don't want to destroy the planet. But there is a powerful force at work that makes it difficult for most people to see clearly: culture. People like to do things the "normal" way. I once gave a workshop to a group that demonstrated this. I gave the talk in Japan and half the people were Japanese. The other half were from western countries (mostly the US). I asked them to get into groups and debate the best way to take a shower. In Japan, people tend to shower while sitting on a small stool. In the west, people tend to shower standing up. I had to stop the discussion after 10 minutes because I was really afraid that some people might come to blows. Why do people react so strongly to such a stupid subject? Is there really a "right" way to shower? The answer is culture. There are things in your life that are normal to you. You have done them that way your whole life. All your friends do them that way. Even your identity can be wrapped up in doing things that way. In my talk I gave a fairly challenging definition of the word "culture": it is the set of things that you do or believe without question. They are the things that are "common sense" or obvious. Everybody does them that way. When pressed, most people will devise reasons for why their way is best, but really it is just a deep rooted belief. If someone holds a cultural belief that entrenches the opposite view it can literally lead to war. What you do personally is only a drop in the bucket, as you say. If you wish to make a large difference, you will have to convince others to join you. But this is where you will run into problems. For example, one could encourage people not to eat meat. This will have many environmental benefits. But eating meat in the west is normal. Most people grew up eating meat. Most people's friends eat meat. Many people have friends or relatives that depend on the meat industry. Some people can get violent if you suggest that they should be sitting down while having a shower. Imagine the reaction to telling them they shouldn't eat meat! Most people shouldn't have a car. Maybe nobody should have a car. That would make a massive difference to the environment. But a car is normal for most people. Driving every day represents freedom and is really part of their identity (especially in North America). Telling people not to drive is like telling them to chop off their left hand. "Because it is better", is just not going to cut it even if you give a thousand examples of how it is better. So what can you do? I think there actually is a way. Why do Japanese people sit down when they shower? I could come up with hundreds of reasons, but the reality is that in Japan this is the way you do it. It doesn't matter. You could stand up, sit down, lie down, hop on one leg. If it were normal, then people would want to do it that way. In Japan it became normal to shower sitting down. Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to make the things necessary for a good and clean environment "normal". We can already see this happen over time. When I was a child, recycling wasn't a thing. In many places in the world it is now "normal". In Japan, if you don't separate your garbage your neighbours will actually yell at you. I have to separate my garbage into 7 different categories!!! But that's normal in my town. All of these other things can be normal too, but it may take generations. If you wish to be a pioneer, you can just live your life and be happy with the decisions you make. You can show your friends and relatives that you can live a "normal", happy life this way. If it really does make sense, then someone else will try it. Help them succeed. Keep doing that and eventually the world can change. It might not be fast enough to divert some bad things coming down the road, but it's better to start late than to sit around being depressed that you can't do anything ;-)

by barbs 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

beatpanda 11y ago

You're right, your personal contributions don't mean a lot because you're making choices in an economic system engineered, physically and politically, to favor fossil fuels. Something like a decade ago, activists switched gears from "consumer choice" campaigns to regulatory and physical sabotage of fossil fuel extraction and infrastructure. Don't worry about your car, but do help those committed nerds showing up to regulatory hearings in your area. The Bay Area has several of these infrastructure fights going on as we speak.

JoshCole 11y ago

You are a human. You are capable of going to a different planet. Communicating with me over a temporal and spacial gap is trivial to you. You are likely a programmer; creating tools which allow for that communication is within your ability. We're made in God's image. Making planets that are habitable, therefore, is within the ken of our image. Also we're responsible for having dominion over this planet and all the critters and plants that are in it. In China, they have a program to help clean the air in which they shoot the pollution out of the sky with water cannons. A hundred years ago there weren't any cars or commercial planes. There are solutions. There are even solutions that we would be blown away by; whats to stop a drone collection army that re-collects released emissions or a bio-logical version which does something similar? We aren't powerless. In the tower of Babel, man wanted to build a tower that would them reach the heavens. God stepped in and put a stop to it, confusing language. We can do things that are amazing and we can do things that are terrible. Humans are so capable that when they set their mind to do something, it takes an act of God to stop them. Do you see fish getting out of their cage and walking on the moon? If you do, your species put them there. I'm going to go back to writing out things which make the world behave as I order it to now. I want people in one location to be able to watch things in another location without going there; and I want them to see invisible features of the things like an audit log of what occurred there. Not clairvoyance though, just our usual so every day that it has become normal science-fiction-like world.

mikekchar 11y ago

Generally people are not evil. They don't want to destroy the planet. But there is a powerful force at work that makes it difficult for most people to see clearly: culture. People like to do things the "normal" way. I once gave a workshop to a group that demonstrated this. I gave the talk in Japan and half the people were Japanese. The other half were from western countries (mostly the US). I asked them to get into groups and debate the best way to take a shower. In Japan, people tend to shower while sitting on a small stool. In the west, people tend to shower standing up. I had to stop the discussion after 10 minutes because I was really afraid that some people might come to blows. Why do people react so strongly to such a stupid subject? Is there really a "right" way to shower? The answer is culture. There are things in your life that are normal to you. You have done them that way your whole life. All your friends do them that way. Even your identity can be wrapped up in doing things that way. In my talk I gave a fairly challenging definition of the word "culture": it is the set of things that you do or believe without question. They are the things that are "common sense" or obvious. Everybody does them that way. When pressed, most people will devise reasons for why their way is best, but really it is just a deep rooted belief. If someone holds a cultural belief that entrenches the opposite view it can literally lead to war. What you do personally is only a drop in the bucket, as you say. If you wish to make a large difference, you will have to convince others to join you. But this is where you will run into problems. For example, one could encourage people not to eat meat. This will have many environmental benefits. But eating meat in the west is normal. Most people grew up eating meat. Most people's friends eat meat. Many people have friends or relatives that depend on the meat industry. Some people can get violent if you suggest that they should be sitting down while having a shower. Imagine the reaction to telling them they shouldn't eat meat! Most people shouldn't have a car. Maybe nobody should have a car. That would make a massive difference to the environment. But a car is normal for most people. Driving every day represents freedom and is really part of their identity (especially in North America). Telling people not to drive is like telling them to chop off their left hand. "Because it is better", is just not going to cut it even if you give a thousand examples of how it is better. So what can you do? I think there actually is a way. Why do Japanese people sit down when they shower? I could come up with hundreds of reasons, but the reality is that in Japan this is the way you do it. It doesn't matter. You could stand up, sit down, lie down, hop on one leg. If it were normal, then people would want to do it that way. In Japan it became normal to shower sitting down. Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to make the things necessary for a good and clean environment "normal". We can already see this happen over time. When I was a child, recycling wasn't a thing. In many places in the world it is now "normal". In Japan, if you don't separate your garbage your neighbours will actually yell at you. I have to separate my garbage into 7 different categories!!! But that's normal in my town. All of these other things can be normal too, but it may take generations. If you wish to be a pioneer, you can just live your life and be happy with the decisions you make. You can show your friends and relatives that you can live a "normal", happy life this way. If it really does make sense, then someone else will try it. Help them succeed. Keep doing that and eventually the world can change. It might not be fast enough to divert some bad things coming down the road, but it's better to start late than to sit around being depressed that you can't do anything ;-)