3 ms·

As noted taxation is theft. Doubly so if it's not a voluntary contract. For instance, sales tax is voluntary. I choose wether or not to make a purchase. I decid

by X86BSD 11y ago

As noted taxation is theft. Doubly so if it's not a voluntary contract. For instance, sales tax is voluntary. I choose wether or not to make a purchase. I decide if I want to pay that tax. Income tax, is not. It's pure theft. We never had one for the first 100 years. "The people" are a group. Groups do not have rights. Individuals have rights. There is no such thing as group rights. That's why we have a lot of the problems we have because we keep putting people into groups.

pdabbadabba 11y ago
It seems to me that theft is the unlawful, involuntary taking of property. Just like how murder is not just killing, but an unlawful killing. So, while you might think that taxation is the moral equivalent of theft, I'm not sure it makes sense to say that they are literally the same thing. And it certainly adds nothing useful to a discussion with people who, as you surely are aware, have heard this tired phrase many times before and have good reason for disagreeing with it. What do you make of these examples? Let's say that I run over your leg with my car, and you successfully sue me for damages. I have no liquid assets with which to pay your judgment. Therefore, you obtain a lien against my boat, seize it, and sell the boat to help satisfy the judgment. Is this theft? Should this be legal? Or what about confiscations of property for reasons other than taxation or the satisfaction of judgments? For example, it seems to me it would be a sensible policy to confiscate automatic firearms from people who have been convicted of multiple violent felonies. Would that be theft? Or what if the state can prove, at trial, that your private jet was purchased with the proceeds of a protection racket. Can it be seized and sold to compensate your victims, or would that be theft? I should add that I also don't see how your distinction between sales tax and income tax makes any sense. The sale and the income are both voluntary--the tax is not. If your point is that the underlying behavior is voluntary, I'm not sure how that distinguishes the cases. Earning an income is no less voluntary than making a purchase (though surely some purchases are more voluntary than others -- just like income). How about if we made it a condition on any purchase that you agreed to pay an income tax? Would that resolve your concern? I'm guessing it wouldn't, though I'm not sure I can see why, except that you like sales taxes for some reason but don't like income taxes.

by X86BSD 11y ago

pdabbadabba 11y ago

It seems to me that theft is the unlawful, involuntary taking of property. Just like how murder is not just killing, but an unlawful killing. So, while you might think that taxation is the moral equivalent of theft, I'm not sure it makes sense to say that they are literally the same thing. And it certainly adds nothing useful to a discussion with people who, as you surely are aware, have heard this tired phrase many times before and have good reason for disagreeing with it. What do you make of these examples? Let's say that I run over your leg with my car, and you successfully sue me for damages. I have no liquid assets with which to pay your judgment. Therefore, you obtain a lien against my boat, seize it, and sell the boat to help satisfy the judgment. Is this theft? Should this be legal? Or what about confiscations of property for reasons other than taxation or the satisfaction of judgments? For example, it seems to me it would be a sensible policy to confiscate automatic firearms from people who have been convicted of multiple violent felonies. Would that be theft? Or what if the state can prove, at trial, that your private jet was purchased with the proceeds of a protection racket. Can it be seized and sold to compensate your victims, or would that be theft? I should add that I also don't see how your distinction between sales tax and income tax makes any sense. The sale and the income are both voluntary--the tax is not. If your point is that the underlying behavior is voluntary, I'm not sure how that distinguishes the cases. Earning an income is no less voluntary than making a purchase (though surely some purchases are more voluntary than others -- just like income). How about if we made it a condition on any purchase that you agreed to pay an income tax? Would that resolve your concern? I'm guessing it wouldn't, though I'm not sure I can see why, except that you like sales taxes for some reason but don't like income taxes.