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That's because Turks are treated in Germany the same way Moroccans are in Netherlands. But I fully agree with your observation. But I think there is hope. For

That's because Turks are treated in Germany the same way Moroccans are in Netherlands. But I fully agree with your observation. But I think there is hope. For instance, the mayor of the second-largest Dutch city (Rotterdam) is a Moroccan immigrant. Such people are role models for people with an immigrant background (you can make it in The Netherlands) and a Dutch background (in terms of acceptance).

tremon 11y ago
Rotterdam is actually the largest Dutch city, though second in rank (Amsterdam is the capital, but it's smaller than Rotterdam).
- cm3 11y ago
  The ironic part of Netherlands or France is that they had been major colonial players, and in the case of France, are now not accepting people from places that were made to be part of the French Empire as real French is baffling on first sight. But then again people from Bretagne distance themselves from those in Paris, and let's not mention Corsica :-). The only way to counter all of it are cold hard scientific truths, not sentiments out of existential scares due to too many "others" being around. I've always wondered how the Brits managed to integrate people of African heritage so well. Maybe it's just that they're for the most part Christians. But that would be too simple an explanation me thinks.
  - mercer 11y ago
    The integration of Indonesians in Holland seems to have gone pretty well. Could there be any kind of similarity there?
- danieldk 11y ago
  Wikipedia numbers: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam : 834.119 inhabitants https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam : 630.383 inhabitants Maybe you are confused with The Hague, which is smaller than both, but the seat of the parliament and government? (Or perhaps you are looking at the surface area, which is not really interesting in this context.)
  - tremon 11y ago
    Well whaddya know. I was actually thinking of the city agglomerate, FAFAIK the metropolitan area of Rotterdam breached 1M population before Amsterdam did. But I really haven't kept up with the last ten years of city developments.

tremon 11y ago

Rotterdam is actually the largest Dutch city, though second in rank (Amsterdam is the capital, but it's smaller than Rotterdam).

cm3 11y ago
The ironic part of Netherlands or France is that they had been major colonial players, and in the case of France, are now not accepting people from places that were made to be part of the French Empire as real French is baffling on first sight. But then again people from Bretagne distance themselves from those in Paris, and let's not mention Corsica :-). The only way to counter all of it are cold hard scientific truths, not sentiments out of existential scares due to too many "others" being around. I've always wondered how the Brits managed to integrate people of African heritage so well. Maybe it's just that they're for the most part Christians. But that would be too simple an explanation me thinks.
- mercer 11y ago
  The integration of Indonesians in Holland seems to have gone pretty well. Could there be any kind of similarity there?
danieldk 11y ago
Wikipedia numbers: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam : 834.119 inhabitants https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam : 630.383 inhabitants Maybe you are confused with The Hague, which is smaller than both, but the seat of the parliament and government? (Or perhaps you are looking at the surface area, which is not really interesting in this context.)
- tremon 11y ago
  Well whaddya know. I was actually thinking of the city agglomerate, FAFAIK the metropolitan area of Rotterdam breached 1M population before Amsterdam did. But I really haven't kept up with the last ten years of city developments.