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If people in China are willing to work for a lower labour standards I don't see why I shouldn't buy from them. They are already making huge sacrifices working

by diskcat 11y ago

If people in China are willing to work for a lower labour standards I don't see why I shouldn't buy from them. They are already making huge sacrifices working in terrible conditions because they weren't lucky enough to be born in the US or western europe et al. Chinese workers are very smart and hard working, so their position in life is not based on their ability but simply bad luck (relative to people born in the US etc.) The least I could do is buy their labour so that they may improve their lives. If I bought from a US companies most of the money would go to a rich 1% new yacht and new iphones for his daughters. I would rather feed a poor chinese worker family and send a youngster to school.

madengr 11y ago
That US PCB manufacturer is also sending his kid to school, paying state and federal taxes, SS, healthcare for employees, and probably allot for hazardous waste service. What makes you think the Chinese PCB manufacturer is not in the 1%; just assumption the US manufacturer is.
- linker3000 11y ago
  So what we're all really saying is that our current concept of 'money' and how it is generated and moved about is fucking up the world and we really need to work out a better way of managing society and balancing our needs against those of the environment. If only.
- diskcat 11y ago
  >That US PCB manufacturer is also sending his kid to school, that's great. but chinese schools are way cheaper than US schools so if somebody asked me to give up $100 to educate 100 chinese kids or half a US kids for x amount of time I would have to say the chinese on utilitarian principle since I can hardly justify that a US person is worth 100x a chinese person. >paying state and federal taxes a lot of which is going to welfare i.e. hands out for people not doing anything productive, which again is a very bad way to spend money. >SS, healthcare for employees, same arguments ditto >and probably allot for hazardous waste service. This is great. However, china is kinda too poor to have good hazardous waste removal. Thus money spent on china makes it richer and more likely to have hazardous waste, thus more likely that less people will be exposed to hazardous waste. >What makes you think the Chinese PCB manufacturer is not in the 1%; just assumption the US manufacturer is. because US is a wealthier country therefore all else being equal the probability of the US manufacturer being rich is higher than the same prob. for the chinese Nothing personal to the americans of course. It's not their fault either than a bowl of noodles in US is 10x the price of the same thing in china so an american has to make way more money than a chinese to survive but i like to spend the least amount of money possible.
pmoriarty 11y ago
What makes you think the money you spend on Chinese goods isn't mostly going to the rich 1% in China? China has their own billionaires who mostly make their money off the backs of the Chinese poor, just like it happens in the US.
- diskcat 11y ago
  Given the choice of giving $1 to a chinese 1% or $10 to an american 1% I still choose $1.
schiffern 11y ago
>If people in China are willing What makes you think the workers have any other choice? They're not "willing" if it's wage slavery. What makes you think the people injured by pollution are willing? When exactly did they give their consent in this transaction? (the knee-jerk response to both is "government regulations", but those are so thoroughly captured/corrupted that no real consent is transmitted) >If I bought from a US companies most of the money would go to a rich 1% new yacht and new iphones This seems equally likely in China.
- diskcat 11y ago
  >What makes you think the workers have any other choice? They're not "willing" if it's wage slavery. that's like saying we are all physics slaves because the universe imposes the laws of physics on us... slavery means a specific thing. when a person is owned as property and has no right and must obey his master on pain of death. don't stretch the word >What makes you think the people injured by pollution are willing? When exactly did they give their consent in this transaction? Im still waiting on the my nuclear reparation money from the USA for all the extra exposure from all those atmospheric nuclear tests nobody in the world has a legitimate pollution compensation scheme >This seems equally likely in China. well since im paying less for stuff from china im definitely paying less for a 1% yacht
- kefka 11y ago
  (I'm not the parent or GP) My answer is: I can't afford US goods costs. I can afford Chinese costs. I'm not a company whose decisions are to move away from the US for an extra $1 billion profit. My choices are : Get it from China, or Don't get it.

by diskcat 11y ago

madengr 11y ago

That US PCB manufacturer is also sending his kid to school, paying state and federal taxes, SS, healthcare for employees, and probably allot for hazardous waste service. What makes you think the Chinese PCB manufacturer is not in the 1%; just assumption the US manufacturer is.

linker3000 11y ago
So what we're all really saying is that our current concept of 'money' and how it is generated and moved about is fucking up the world and we really need to work out a better way of managing society and balancing our needs against those of the environment. If only.
diskcat 11y ago
>That US PCB manufacturer is also sending his kid to school, that's great. but chinese schools are way cheaper than US schools so if somebody asked me to give up $100 to educate 100 chinese kids or half a US kids for x amount of time I would have to say the chinese on utilitarian principle since I can hardly justify that a US person is worth 100x a chinese person. >paying state and federal taxes a lot of which is going to welfare i.e. hands out for people not doing anything productive, which again is a very bad way to spend money. >SS, healthcare for employees, same arguments ditto >and probably allot for hazardous waste service. This is great. However, china is kinda too poor to have good hazardous waste removal. Thus money spent on china makes it richer and more likely to have hazardous waste, thus more likely that less people will be exposed to hazardous waste. >What makes you think the Chinese PCB manufacturer is not in the 1%; just assumption the US manufacturer is. because US is a wealthier country therefore all else being equal the probability of the US manufacturer being rich is higher than the same prob. for the chinese Nothing personal to the americans of course. It's not their fault either than a bowl of noodles in US is 10x the price of the same thing in china so an american has to make way more money than a chinese to survive but i like to spend the least amount of money possible.

pmoriarty 11y ago

What makes you think the money you spend on Chinese goods isn't mostly going to the rich 1% in China? China has their own billionaires who mostly make their money off the backs of the Chinese poor, just like it happens in the US.

diskcat 11y ago
Given the choice of giving $1 to a chinese 1% or $10 to an american 1% I still choose $1.

schiffern 11y ago

>If people in China are willing What makes you think the workers have any other choice? They're not "willing" if it's wage slavery. What makes you think the people injured by pollution are willing? When exactly did they give their consent in this transaction? (the knee-jerk response to both is "government regulations", but those are so thoroughly captured/corrupted that no real consent is transmitted) >If I bought from a US companies most of the money would go to a rich 1% new yacht and new iphones This seems equally likely in China.

diskcat 11y ago
>What makes you think the workers have any other choice? They're not "willing" if it's wage slavery. that's like saying we are all physics slaves because the universe imposes the laws of physics on us... slavery means a specific thing. when a person is owned as property and has no right and must obey his master on pain of death. don't stretch the word >What makes you think the people injured by pollution are willing? When exactly did they give their consent in this transaction? Im still waiting on the my nuclear reparation money from the USA for all the extra exposure from all those atmospheric nuclear tests nobody in the world has a legitimate pollution compensation scheme >This seems equally likely in China. well since im paying less for stuff from china im definitely paying less for a 1% yacht
kefka 11y ago
(I'm not the parent or GP) My answer is: I can't afford US goods costs. I can afford Chinese costs. I'm not a company whose decisions are to move away from the US for an extra $1 billion profit. My choices are : Get it from China, or Don't get it.