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Netherlands Moves to Only Allow EV Sales by 2025 – End of Gas, Petrol

25 points by bemmu 11y ago

Choronzon 11y ago
Great, Instead of cars running on petrol they can run on coal instead.
- phaemon 11y ago
  Well, the Netherlands will have the same type of renewable energy targets as the rest of the EU so that should be reduced by 2025. I believe they already buy a fair chunk of their electricity from Norway, which is practically all renewable.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    ~60% or so of the actual consumed energy in (mainland) Norway currently comes from renewable sources. Norway exports quite a bit of energy which is not "renewable" most of it is powered by gas and trash incineration.
    - phaemon 11y ago
      We're talking electricity here, not all energy, and 96% of electricity in Norway is from renewable (nearly all hydro).
- Choronzon 11y ago
  Current renewable usage in NL is less than 4%.What can possibly go wrong?
phaemon 11y ago
Of course it's possible that by 2025 (barring disaster) EVs will be so much better than fossil fuel powered cars that no-one would buy anything else as a new car. There will still be the second-hand market of course.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  It's also Europe from what I heard it not uncommon to go to Germany or France to buy a car there with slightly cheaper taxes.
  - lgieron 11y ago
    My guess is that they'd forbid registration of new petrol/diesel cars, not just sales.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Don't think that will fly with EU regulations, that means that EU residents can't register their cars when moving to the Netherlands.
      - yread 11y ago
        If you work in the Netherlands you have to register your car (and pay the road tax and it can be tens of thousands of euros based on CO2 and list price) within 6 months I believe.
        dogma1138 11y ago
        Road tax and registration tax in Netherlands are 2 separate things iirc.
      - lgieron 11y ago
        In my concept, that would regard new cars only (i.e. never registered before). When you're moving to the Netherlands, your car is already registered in the country you're moving out of.
        dogma1138 11y ago
        Could be, still don't see this working out, this seems like an unrealistic goal and unrealistic goals tend to produce lesser results than realistic ones. No petrol cars meaning people won't be able to buy a Porsche, what about work vehicles - vans, pickups, trucks? they'll probably be exempt which will create loopholes. By 2025 I don't see EV's gaining more than 25% of the market in Europe on average, petrol ban can just create a huge backlash and waste money and political capital that could be used to actually get to a higher goal than the projected average say 25% by focusing on education and incentives such as subsidies and direct and tax benefits which is pretty much what Norway did.
reustle 11y ago
I am still waiting for my electric motorcycle that goes >50 miles. Zero, KTM, and Yamaha are all making good progress, but I'm sitting tight. If Tesla came out with a solid motorcycle, I would be beside myself. Maybe it is possible to fab a Tesla powerwall into an existing frame? :)
roel_v 11y ago
What actually happened is that parliament voted to make the government write a plan on how to achieve this. There is no 'commitment' to do anything, no law, nor a real plan even on how to get there or what any legislation to mandate this would look like. Not to be a Debby Downer but what actually happened isn't even close to what is being suggested by the linked articles.
Boothroid 11y ago
Royal Dutch Shell is a big employer in NL and NL has a good part of the North Sea field (they were pumping so much gas from the NAM field it caused earthquakes!). I can't see the canny Dutch doing something to harm themselves.
- whazor 11y ago
  Like you said, Shell is really into gas, and a part of their business is moving gas via large ships. In Netherlands, gas is the biggest source of energy, which those cars will drive on. So that is why I do not see it as a big problem.
  - Boothroid 11y ago
    Unless that is renewables displace LPG in short order, but then I'm sure the Dutchies will just build more turbines, it's not like there's a lack of wind in NL! They might not retain their position amongst the higher GDP countries though.

25 points by bemmu 11y ago

Choronzon 11y ago

Great, Instead of cars running on petrol they can run on coal instead.

phaemon 11y ago
Well, the Netherlands will have the same type of renewable energy targets as the rest of the EU so that should be reduced by 2025. I believe they already buy a fair chunk of their electricity from Norway, which is practically all renewable.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  ~60% or so of the actual consumed energy in (mainland) Norway currently comes from renewable sources. Norway exports quite a bit of energy which is not "renewable" most of it is powered by gas and trash incineration.
  - phaemon 11y ago
    We're talking electricity here, not all energy, and 96% of electricity in Norway is from renewable (nearly all hydro).
Choronzon 11y ago
Current renewable usage in NL is less than 4%.What can possibly go wrong?

phaemon 11y ago

Of course it's possible that by 2025 (barring disaster) EVs will be so much better than fossil fuel powered cars that no-one would buy anything else as a new car. There will still be the second-hand market of course.

dogma1138 11y ago
It's also Europe from what I heard it not uncommon to go to Germany or France to buy a car there with slightly cheaper taxes.
- lgieron 11y ago
  My guess is that they'd forbid registration of new petrol/diesel cars, not just sales.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Don't think that will fly with EU regulations, that means that EU residents can't register their cars when moving to the Netherlands.
    - yread 11y ago
      If you work in the Netherlands you have to register your car (and pay the road tax and it can be tens of thousands of euros based on CO2 and list price) within 6 months I believe.
      - dogma1138 11y ago
        Road tax and registration tax in Netherlands are 2 separate things iirc.
    - lgieron 11y ago
      In my concept, that would regard new cars only (i.e. never registered before). When you're moving to the Netherlands, your car is already registered in the country you're moving out of.
      - dogma1138 11y ago
        Could be, still don't see this working out, this seems like an unrealistic goal and unrealistic goals tend to produce lesser results than realistic ones. No petrol cars meaning people won't be able to buy a Porsche, what about work vehicles - vans, pickups, trucks? they'll probably be exempt which will create loopholes. By 2025 I don't see EV's gaining more than 25% of the market in Europe on average, petrol ban can just create a huge backlash and waste money and political capital that could be used to actually get to a higher goal than the projected average say 25% by focusing on education and incentives such as subsidies and direct and tax benefits which is pretty much what Norway did.

reustle 11y ago

I am still waiting for my electric motorcycle that goes >50 miles. Zero, KTM, and Yamaha are all making good progress, but I'm sitting tight. If Tesla came out with a solid motorcycle, I would be beside myself. Maybe it is possible to fab a Tesla powerwall into an existing frame? :)

roel_v 11y ago

What actually happened is that parliament voted to make the government write a plan on how to achieve this. There is no 'commitment' to do anything, no law, nor a real plan even on how to get there or what any legislation to mandate this would look like. Not to be a Debby Downer but what actually happened isn't even close to what is being suggested by the linked articles.

Boothroid 11y ago

Royal Dutch Shell is a big employer in NL and NL has a good part of the North Sea field (they were pumping so much gas from the NAM field it caused earthquakes!). I can't see the canny Dutch doing something to harm themselves.

whazor 11y ago
Like you said, Shell is really into gas, and a part of their business is moving gas via large ships. In Netherlands, gas is the biggest source of energy, which those cars will drive on. So that is why I do not see it as a big problem.
- Boothroid 11y ago
  Unless that is renewables displace LPG in short order, but then I'm sure the Dutchies will just build more turbines, it's not like there's a lack of wind in NL! They might not retain their position amongst the higher GDP countries though.