3 ms·

I actually found 'toughening up' the wrong mental strategy, but rather "not giving a damn". You're in a position where you have a job. Anything you interview f

I actually found 'toughening up' the wrong mental strategy, but rather "not giving a damn". You're in a position where you have a job. Anything you interview for you -don't need-. You may want, but you don't need. You also sound very comfortable in a specific role. That's a great place to start from, because if someone rejects you...what are they rejecting? How does it effect you? You know you're good, at least in certain areas. Either they don't need your knowledge in those areas and aren't convinced you'd be an asset in others (which is fair, and a reflection not on your abilities but your experiences), or their process is broken. Neither is a reflection of you. I've gotten a lot more comfortable in interviews just recognizing that, that I have successes under my belt, I've already proved I can learn and adapt and get difficult things done. So if in an interview I don't get an offer...that speaks more of their process, or the minutiae of what they're looking for, than it does of my capabilities. And what's funny is that that devil-may-care attitude, has made me both more willing to speak confidently about what I can do, -and- to more readily admit what I can't. I don't fumble and stutter when asked do I know about (a thing I don't know about), and give some half-truth, I just flat out say "I don't. What is it?" And that has led to better interviews, and more offers, than I ever got when I was a scared junior dev looking for work.

ereyes01 11y ago
This works for me, and is generally how I've dealt with high pressure situations throughout my life. I just sort of go into "eh, don't give a fuck" mode, and try to joke around with people about how I don't give a fuck about the outcome (if comfort level with said people is appropriate, like fellow students). It's just a way that I calm myself so that my brain can effectively recall my practice / training to help me execute better at the critical moment. Interviews are much like tests in school. The pressure is high, you only have a moment to recall the information and act correctly, you have very little leverage over the situation... and in both cases they are probably poor indicators of what is being measured :-) Maybe the similarity to tests in schools is the origin of programming interviews came to be the way they are...
mooreds 11y ago
> I actually found 'toughening up' the wrong mental strategy, but rather "not giving a damn". I believe this is called having a great BATNA. You always want to have a plan B, and preferably a plan C. That's why you should always be networking (and, if you are a company or hiring manager, always be recruiting: http://avc.com/2012/07/mba-mondays-guest-post-from-chad-dickerson/ http://avc.com/2012/07/mba-mondays-guest-post-from-chad-dick... ). I find that contracting is a great way to practice "not giving a damn" because you can cycle through 3-5 contracts (of various sizes) in the time that 1 w2 job would take. That means you get all kind of experience with different colleagues and processes and tech sets. Also, the act of repeatedly putting yourself out there will thicken your skin and let you realize that sometimes it isn't about you, but rather is about the company/client. That's to say nothing of the benefits of learning to run your own business and marketing and budgeting. (If that floats your boat.)
- nstj 11y ago
  Amen with respect to cycling contracts. Landing a great job is essentially about reducing information asymmetry, and this gives a great means of doing so.
  - mooreds 11y ago
    It also means you can move on from several different situations without having a series of short term jobs on your resume. Which still matters.
bcook 11y ago
I think the "not giving a damn" statement belies that you do actually care. Like someone saying "I don't care" implies... yes, you do care, otherwise you would not state such a thing.
- lostcolony 11y ago
  Being a bit pedantic there aren't you? Sure, if I wasn't interested, I wouldn't be interviewing. But recognizing that the interview's outcome doesn't reflect who I am, nor does it mean 'my life is over and I'll never get a job I like', or any of the other anxieties common to those first few job hunts, means I am not so invested in -succeeding-, and far more invested in just scoping the company out, seeing if this would be a good fit, and accepting a "no" as in no way a reflection of my quality. Obviously, "not giving a damn" is hyperbole; as I said, if I really didn't give a damn I'd not be interviewing in the first place. But it is the most accurate description of the attitude I find myself having when interviewing. "Toughening it out" was what I did as a college student and junior dev, trying to fight the impostor syndrome as I try to convince strangers I'm worth hiring, and trying to hold down the feelings of depression and self-loathing afterwards as I criticized every single thing I did that I thought was a mistake in the interview (even successful ones that in hindsight I realize I absolutely aced), and tried not to think about how I just blew my chance at a dream job (because every company that I talked with was a dream job, after all; someone who would actually -pay- me to write code and solve problems!) I instead describe my current attitude as "not giving a damn" to demarcate it as very much different than that prior experience; my feelings now are "I am good, I know a lot, I learn fast, and I have a track record to prove it, and if you say no it means either you want someone with different experiences who is looking for something very different than what I am, or you've been interviewing for (and thus hiring for) the wrong thing; in either case I don't think I'd enjoy it here. So, while I hope this works out in the affirmative...I will view a 'no' from you as a positive as well, because it tells me more about you than it does about me. Regardless of your response, I am relieved to hear it, hence, I don't give a damn what it is".
  - bcook 11y ago
    I think I offended you. That was not my intent. Focus on what is important. I am very likely a pedant, yet you waste all that text replying to me... Why? (Please do not respond to this post. I have no academic input to share. I only wonder why you even care...) Edit: Is it acceptable to accomplish less than the average? (In my limited experience, "no" is the answer.)
mcv 11y ago
Exactly. Interviewing is a lot more comfortable if you do it from the security of having a job. If they don't want you, then no problem. And more than that, the interview process is also to determine if you actually want to work for them. You can reject them, even if they want to hire you. Interviewing becomes a much more symmetrical affair. You have power too. You can afford to say no, and you can afford them to say no.

ereyes01 11y ago

This works for me, and is generally how I've dealt with high pressure situations throughout my life. I just sort of go into "eh, don't give a fuck" mode, and try to joke around with people about how I don't give a fuck about the outcome (if comfort level with said people is appropriate, like fellow students). It's just a way that I calm myself so that my brain can effectively recall my practice / training to help me execute better at the critical moment. Interviews are much like tests in school. The pressure is high, you only have a moment to recall the information and act correctly, you have very little leverage over the situation... and in both cases they are probably poor indicators of what is being measured :-) Maybe the similarity to tests in schools is the origin of programming interviews came to be the way they are...

mooreds 11y ago

> I actually found 'toughening up' the wrong mental strategy, but rather "not giving a damn". I believe this is called having a great BATNA. You always want to have a plan B, and preferably a plan C. That's why you should always be networking (and, if you are a company or hiring manager, always be recruiting: http://avc.com/2012/07/mba-mondays-guest-post-from-chad-dickerson/ http://avc.com/2012/07/mba-mondays-guest-post-from-chad-dick... ). I find that contracting is a great way to practice "not giving a damn" because you can cycle through 3-5 contracts (of various sizes) in the time that 1 w2 job would take. That means you get all kind of experience with different colleagues and processes and tech sets. Also, the act of repeatedly putting yourself out there will thicken your skin and let you realize that sometimes it isn't about you, but rather is about the company/client. That's to say nothing of the benefits of learning to run your own business and marketing and budgeting. (If that floats your boat.)

nstj 11y ago
Amen with respect to cycling contracts. Landing a great job is essentially about reducing information asymmetry, and this gives a great means of doing so.
- mooreds 11y ago
  It also means you can move on from several different situations without having a series of short term jobs on your resume. Which still matters.

bcook 11y ago

I think the "not giving a damn" statement belies that you do actually care. Like someone saying "I don't care" implies... yes, you do care, otherwise you would not state such a thing.

lostcolony 11y ago
Being a bit pedantic there aren't you? Sure, if I wasn't interested, I wouldn't be interviewing. But recognizing that the interview's outcome doesn't reflect who I am, nor does it mean 'my life is over and I'll never get a job I like', or any of the other anxieties common to those first few job hunts, means I am not so invested in -succeeding-, and far more invested in just scoping the company out, seeing if this would be a good fit, and accepting a "no" as in no way a reflection of my quality. Obviously, "not giving a damn" is hyperbole; as I said, if I really didn't give a damn I'd not be interviewing in the first place. But it is the most accurate description of the attitude I find myself having when interviewing. "Toughening it out" was what I did as a college student and junior dev, trying to fight the impostor syndrome as I try to convince strangers I'm worth hiring, and trying to hold down the feelings of depression and self-loathing afterwards as I criticized every single thing I did that I thought was a mistake in the interview (even successful ones that in hindsight I realize I absolutely aced), and tried not to think about how I just blew my chance at a dream job (because every company that I talked with was a dream job, after all; someone who would actually -pay- me to write code and solve problems!) I instead describe my current attitude as "not giving a damn" to demarcate it as very much different than that prior experience; my feelings now are "I am good, I know a lot, I learn fast, and I have a track record to prove it, and if you say no it means either you want someone with different experiences who is looking for something very different than what I am, or you've been interviewing for (and thus hiring for) the wrong thing; in either case I don't think I'd enjoy it here. So, while I hope this works out in the affirmative...I will view a 'no' from you as a positive as well, because it tells me more about you than it does about me. Regardless of your response, I am relieved to hear it, hence, I don't give a damn what it is".
- bcook 11y ago
  I think I offended you. That was not my intent. Focus on what is important. I am very likely a pedant, yet you waste all that text replying to me... Why? (Please do not respond to this post. I have no academic input to share. I only wonder why you even care...) Edit: Is it acceptable to accomplish less than the average? (In my limited experience, "no" is the answer.)

mcv 11y ago

Exactly. Interviewing is a lot more comfortable if you do it from the security of having a job. If they don't want you, then no problem. And more than that, the interview process is also to determine if you actually want to work for them. You can reject them, even if they want to hire you. Interviewing becomes a much more symmetrical affair. You have power too. You can afford to say no, and you can afford them to say no.