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You do have to get off the ground first, but at a certain point the countersignaling value of a lack of degree starts to kick in. It's sad when the most impres

You do have to get off the ground first, but at a certain point the countersignaling value of a lack of degree starts to kick in. It's sad when the most impressive thing about a candidate is that they went to School X. It's impressive when a candidate has done interesting / difficult things despite a lack of degree.

13of40 11y ago
As someone with no degree who's done OK in the software industry, I would hands-down go back and get one if I could turn back the clock. Not because it would necessarily translate to more money, but because I've been giving myself ulcers worrying about it for the last 20 years. YMMV
- aantix 11y ago
  If you've done well, why are you worrying about it? You've bet on yourself to pull through these past 20 years and you've won. You're going to be fine without it.
  - Futurebot 11y ago
    There are lots of reasons, some of which never go away (peer acceptance, additional scrutiny / skepticism, raise availability and amount.) There's also the specialization problem: you can "be fine" but essentially be limited to what I like to term "survival tech" jobs (CRUD and some other less-than-glamorous roles.) Not going to school, especially one that gives you opportunities to work on really interesting stuff (elite/research schools), means you'll likely never break into things like robotics or Socher-level DL. There are exceptions, but most people will not. You may also never be fully accepted culturally, since one of the major advantages of going is that you're the "right" sort of person (meaning that you have the correct socio-economic background and understand/speak corporate-derived "elite meritocratic culture") / you're able to build a high-quality network of well-connected peers who themselves are part of the socio-economic elite.
    - antoniuschan99 11y ago
      The thing is in this industry, a lot of the people at the top of the food chain or general mythos is that there are a lot who didn't graduate and still did fine (Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs). It's also what you make of it. Sure your degree may give you an easier entry to robotics, but it doesn't mean you need one to get in. It's just the most standard way of getting in, but there are other ways of getting in. Also, 4 years is still a lot of time not working on 'real projects' if your career is 20-30 years. Because of coding bootcamps and other stuff, we're already seeing less people going to 4 year programs and more doing 2-4 semester intensive courses. At least in the software industry, I think it's going to be like apprenticeships in the future. Apparently it's more common in Europe like Germany. Shopify's CEO (Tobias) did some sort of apprenticeship program like that.
    - aantix 11y ago
      In 2015, I had a half million dollar contract. I went to the University of Nebraska (not an Ivy league). I dropped out. My clothes are usually wrinkled, my hair is never combed. Some may mistake me for a homeless person on the right day. But I've done open source work. I've spoken at RailsConf twice. I have a good tract record. I have no idea who this "socio-economic elite" is that you refer to, but in general, if you want to make money as a software engineer, you don't need a fancy degree. If you want to make money, you need to learn how to sell yourself and constantly put yourself out there. No university is ever going to teach you this.

13of40 11y ago

As someone with no degree who's done OK in the software industry, I would hands-down go back and get one if I could turn back the clock. Not because it would necessarily translate to more money, but because I've been giving myself ulcers worrying about it for the last 20 years. YMMV

aantix 11y ago
If you've done well, why are you worrying about it? You've bet on yourself to pull through these past 20 years and you've won. You're going to be fine without it.
- Futurebot 11y ago
  There are lots of reasons, some of which never go away (peer acceptance, additional scrutiny / skepticism, raise availability and amount.) There's also the specialization problem: you can "be fine" but essentially be limited to what I like to term "survival tech" jobs (CRUD and some other less-than-glamorous roles.) Not going to school, especially one that gives you opportunities to work on really interesting stuff (elite/research schools), means you'll likely never break into things like robotics or Socher-level DL. There are exceptions, but most people will not. You may also never be fully accepted culturally, since one of the major advantages of going is that you're the "right" sort of person (meaning that you have the correct socio-economic background and understand/speak corporate-derived "elite meritocratic culture") / you're able to build a high-quality network of well-connected peers who themselves are part of the socio-economic elite.
  - antoniuschan99 11y ago
    The thing is in this industry, a lot of the people at the top of the food chain or general mythos is that there are a lot who didn't graduate and still did fine (Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs). It's also what you make of it. Sure your degree may give you an easier entry to robotics, but it doesn't mean you need one to get in. It's just the most standard way of getting in, but there are other ways of getting in. Also, 4 years is still a lot of time not working on 'real projects' if your career is 20-30 years. Because of coding bootcamps and other stuff, we're already seeing less people going to 4 year programs and more doing 2-4 semester intensive courses. At least in the software industry, I think it's going to be like apprenticeships in the future. Apparently it's more common in Europe like Germany. Shopify's CEO (Tobias) did some sort of apprenticeship program like that.
  - aantix 11y ago
    In 2015, I had a half million dollar contract. I went to the University of Nebraska (not an Ivy league). I dropped out. My clothes are usually wrinkled, my hair is never combed. Some may mistake me for a homeless person on the right day. But I've done open source work. I've spoken at RailsConf twice. I have a good tract record. I have no idea who this "socio-economic elite" is that you refer to, but in general, if you want to make money as a software engineer, you don't need a fancy degree. If you want to make money, you need to learn how to sell yourself and constantly put yourself out there. No university is ever going to teach you this.