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Downvoter here: I downvoted early on because you're making an argument that seems to me both not particularly good and off-topic to the post you replied to. OP

Downvoter here: I downvoted early on because you're making an argument that seems to me both not particularly good and off-topic to the post you replied to. OP posited: “Apple's been taking a number of steps over the last few months to show that they take Safari/WebKit development seriously. This is another positive step in the right direction.” You basically responded, “They're still not as good as I want them to be!” It's a point that has nothing to do with the original comment, which was about improvement, not perfection, and about how seriously they take Safari/Webkit development, not about their release process (which remains roughly the same as it has been for the past many years). Additionally, regarding the workarounds you mention: they are unnecessary in a “normal environment with rapid updates” only when those developers decide to fix your bug. Again: rapid updates are only useful if your bug is being addressed. I've got workarounds in my code for issues in Firefox that probably won't be fixed anytime soon, and features that Firefox and Chrome support poorly that they won't support well for a while, etc, etc. I'm not saying Apple couldn't be releasing bug fixes for Safari on any platform faster—they certainly could. But you made an unrelated complaint as a reply to a specific comment, and your argument seems suspect to boot.

chris_wot 11y ago
I don't care how much I've been downvoted, especially by someone who contributes their own comments so infrequently to HN, but it's funny how you only now decided to make a comment. I personally feel that Apple are still not as good as not only I want them to be, but pretty much anyone who uses or develops for iOS. But yes, you categorize my comments and opinions well - Apple are indeed not very responsive, and yes Apple need to do a hell of a lot better. As I say, the votes are bouncing up and down, so I'm not the only one who has holds this opinion. And no, it's not off-topic. As an end user, I now have to incorporate workarounds that no normal user should have to make to get around their issues - I'm literally running Charles proxy (until iOS 9.3 fixed their issue) and a rewrite rule to get around their ridiculous bug. And I had to run it for 3 months. Firefox and Chrome has an issue like this one fixed within their next cycle - in other words, in no time at all. All of which means I'm not afraid, ashamed or worried about downvotes from folks like yourself. I've not said anything offensive, sexist, racist or even all that terribly controversial. You've finally come out of the woodwork to make your comment, which I appreciate. If only you had made it sooner, eh?
- dang 11y ago
  Please don't go on about getting downvoted in HN comments. The guidelines explicitly ask everyone not to do that, because it's tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    OK, and what about those who tell me that I'm off topic when I'm not? Or those who don't look at my wider point and accuse me of bad faith comments? My only comment was that my score was going up and down like a yo-yo, and only because I was being accused of making off-topic comments. That's pretty tedious, no? Surely that's against HN guidelines?
    - dang 11y ago
      There certainly are other tedious things besides that tedious thing, but still, please don't do it, even if provoked. Being a good HN commenter in the long run means learning to eat provocation, which admittedly sucks, but is true community service.
      - chris_wot 11y ago
        Fair point :-)
wyqydsyq 11y ago
The problem isn't necessarily Apple's laziness with updating Safari, I think it's more the fact that they insist on using their own JavaScript engine. They could very easily just use Blink and V8 which would significantly cut down the maintenance work in keeping Safari up to date as well as leveraging the work already done rather than trying to reinvent the wheel to nobody's benefit. For example most ES2015 features have been available in Chrome, Edge and Firefox for over 6 months now, but Safari still doesn't support any of it (other than this tech preview) because it's development time is shared with the rest of Apple's ecosystem. Unless Apple dedicates more resources to Safari in order to keep pace with the rest of the browsers, they'll be playing catch-up ad infinitum.
- lstamour 11y ago
  Except the reason Blink forked from WebKit was all the Apple-specific code they could drop. Apple really focuses on hardware integration and getting maximum battery life out of their engine. I can't say the same about Chrome yet.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Only Safari (betas) have better ES6 support than Chrome ones according to a latest article on Ars. And Safari saves like 20% to 30% of your battery life over Chrome... http://bgr.com/2015/08/05/google-chrome-vs-safari-battery-life/ http://bgr.com/2015/08/05/google-chrome-vs-safari-battery-li... http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/10/8381447/chrome-macbook-battery-life http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/10/8381447/chrome-macbook-bat... And both are due to Apple's own JIT engine...
  - gsnedders 11y ago
    > And Safari saves like 20% to 30% of your battery life over Chrome... > And both are due to Apple's own JIT engine... I feel like that claim needs a source. I'd be amazed if the JS engine had anywhere near such a substantial effect on battery life.
    - om2 11y ago

chris_wot 11y ago

I don't care how much I've been downvoted, especially by someone who contributes their own comments so infrequently to HN, but it's funny how you only now decided to make a comment. I personally feel that Apple are still not as good as not only I want them to be, but pretty much anyone who uses or develops for iOS. But yes, you categorize my comments and opinions well - Apple are indeed not very responsive, and yes Apple need to do a hell of a lot better. As I say, the votes are bouncing up and down, so I'm not the only one who has holds this opinion. And no, it's not off-topic. As an end user, I now have to incorporate workarounds that no normal user should have to make to get around their issues - I'm literally running Charles proxy (until iOS 9.3 fixed their issue) and a rewrite rule to get around their ridiculous bug. And I had to run it for 3 months. Firefox and Chrome has an issue like this one fixed within their next cycle - in other words, in no time at all. All of which means I'm not afraid, ashamed or worried about downvotes from folks like yourself. I've not said anything offensive, sexist, racist or even all that terribly controversial. You've finally come out of the woodwork to make your comment, which I appreciate. If only you had made it sooner, eh?

dang 11y ago
Please don't go on about getting downvoted in HN comments. The guidelines explicitly ask everyone not to do that, because it's tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- chris_wot 11y ago
  OK, and what about those who tell me that I'm off topic when I'm not? Or those who don't look at my wider point and accuse me of bad faith comments? My only comment was that my score was going up and down like a yo-yo, and only because I was being accused of making off-topic comments. That's pretty tedious, no? Surely that's against HN guidelines?
  - dang 11y ago
    There certainly are other tedious things besides that tedious thing, but still, please don't do it, even if provoked. Being a good HN commenter in the long run means learning to eat provocation, which admittedly sucks, but is true community service.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      Fair point :-)

wyqydsyq 11y ago

The problem isn't necessarily Apple's laziness with updating Safari, I think it's more the fact that they insist on using their own JavaScript engine. They could very easily just use Blink and V8 which would significantly cut down the maintenance work in keeping Safari up to date as well as leveraging the work already done rather than trying to reinvent the wheel to nobody's benefit. For example most ES2015 features have been available in Chrome, Edge and Firefox for over 6 months now, but Safari still doesn't support any of it (other than this tech preview) because it's development time is shared with the rest of Apple's ecosystem. Unless Apple dedicates more resources to Safari in order to keep pace with the rest of the browsers, they'll be playing catch-up ad infinitum.

lstamour 11y ago
Except the reason Blink forked from WebKit was all the Apple-specific code they could drop. Apple really focuses on hardware integration and getting maximum battery life out of their engine. I can't say the same about Chrome yet.
coldtea 11y ago
Only Safari (betas) have better ES6 support than Chrome ones according to a latest article on Ars. And Safari saves like 20% to 30% of your battery life over Chrome... http://bgr.com/2015/08/05/google-chrome-vs-safari-battery-life/ http://bgr.com/2015/08/05/google-chrome-vs-safari-battery-li... http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/10/8381447/chrome-macbook-battery-life http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/10/8381447/chrome-macbook-bat... And both are due to Apple's own JIT engine...
- gsnedders 11y ago
  > And Safari saves like 20% to 30% of your battery life over Chrome... > And both are due to Apple's own JIT engine... I feel like that claim needs a source. I'd be amazed if the JS engine had anywhere near such a substantial effect on battery life.
  - om2 11y ago