4 ms·

Luckily in my current job search I've only been told there would be a whiteboard once (this Friday!). This article made me nervous though—as a busy student I do

Luckily in my current job search I've only been told there would be a whiteboard once (this Friday!). This article made me nervous though—as a busy student I don't have time to sit down and review/learn all those tree and linked list operations as well as their complexities. Best interview I've had was pair programming with a team member and fixing a bug.

fapjacks 11y ago
Yep! I have been interviewing for fun for the last few years (averaging maybe one or two interviews every few months), and I've seen all kinds of stuff. Way too many whiteboards. In fact, even after all these years, whiteboards still make me nervous, and basically makes it impossible to get into flow, or have a reasonably nice mindset for solving problems. And if I do this for fun, you can bet that people who depend on those interviews for their livelihood aren't feeling much better. I think it's a really stupid way to interview. Anyways, I agree with you: The best and funnest interviews -- and therefore the interviews I feel most comfortable (and therefore able to really show what I know) -- are the pair programming interviews. You build a special rapport with a single developer on the team, who gets a really good idea of the kind of coder you are. It's like a nice, calm conversation about technology.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Scarbutt 11y ago
  nice hobby you got there ;) What do you if the company wants to hire you?
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    Obviously, if the offer is better that what you already have, you seriously consider accepting it. Otherwise, you tell them that their offer is not competitive, and maybe the next monkey to come along chasing their peanut can benefit from your feedback.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- bgribble 11y ago
  While I appreciate that this process has been great for you, I would think that it probably sucks for all the engineers and managers whose time you took up interviewing "for fun". Have you ever tried to hire engineers? It is a pain in the ass, and giving serious consideration to every candidate takes up a huge amount of time even before the interview, much less taking a significant chunk of a day for a significant chunk of the team to actually do the interview. If I found out someone had interviewed with me "for fun" I would be very tempted to send them a bill for "employment search consulting services" at my team's market rate per man hour!
  - sotojuan 11y ago
    A lot of people do this though—my finance friends have been interviewing for internships and jobs there's no way they could get for fun and practice. Essentially they've wasted people's times for 2-3 years so by now that they're seniors any interview is a piece of cake. I guess that's more useful than just for fun though.
  - busterarm 11y ago
    You go into this process knowing that it consumes time and that not everything is going to pan out. If you had the data and processes to identify the perfect candidate, you wouldn't need to bring people in to interview. It's not waste, it's data collection. If you're not building usable data out of your interview process, your hiring process sucks. My team was interviewing candidates recently and we brought in a guy that was great on paper and in the interview but we had other candidates scheduled and two of them ended up blowing the first guy away. I'm glad we delayed that hiring decision until we had an appropriate amount of data. Also, think of it like dating (or any other matching market). Being outcome-dependent says nothing about your candidates but a lot (that's unattractive) about you. The best way to do things is to build good relationships. Your company and your developers should have a network of people you can bring in at any time to interview for a position. As a developer you should also have a network of contacts to know who needs developers. Instead you're waiting till you're desperate and coming off as needy. If I see that, I'm going to ask for a lot more money or as an employer offer less. Thankfully for my wallet, almost everyone else is in the same boat as you. ...and if I'm out interviewing for fun and find a better fit, I'm probably going to take it.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  I love the idea of interviewing for practice, and would do it myself, but I only have 10 vacation days a year to blow. How do you manage it? Pretend to be sick? (naughty, naughty)
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    Most companies are pretty flexible about interviewing you if you ask, and also my work hours are flexible where I'm at, in addition to my already being able to work from anywhere at least some of the time (in fact this is near the top of the list of non-negotiable things I look for in a job). I can work around an interview pretty easily, especially because I'm already nearby. I have only had to take vacation to interview one or two times. All the other times I just make it work. But to address your question, I do in fact sometimes "pretend to be sick", because someone very wise once taught me as a young programmer to take "blue flu" days away from the office to help maintain a good work-life balance. I think this alone has been instrumental in preventing burn-out, because I am also at times the kind of person to work hard without any kind of break, which I think can be detrimental. When I mentor, I try to pass this along. You should take blue flu days, too!
    - vonmoltke 11y ago
      That's great if you live in an area with a bunch of companies you want to work at. If, like me, you don't you end up having to use vacation days and make up excuses for short-notice one and two day absences.
Zigurd 11y ago
That's an excellent approach. It's quick enough to get meaningful results, it's interactive, and it's not artificial in the wtf-coding-without-an-ide way that whiteboard coding is like.
- sotojuan 11y ago
  Yep, it's good because: * Tests your knowledge of the language/framework * Tests your problem solving and bug fixing abilities and workflow * Tests your debugging skills * Tests your ability to work with other people Not all of these are crucial (except the last one), but this format tests what is most relevant.

fapjacks 11y ago

Yep! I have been interviewing for fun for the last few years (averaging maybe one or two interviews every few months), and I've seen all kinds of stuff. Way too many whiteboards. In fact, even after all these years, whiteboards still make me nervous, and basically makes it impossible to get into flow, or have a reasonably nice mindset for solving problems. And if I do this for fun, you can bet that people who depend on those interviews for their livelihood aren't feeling much better. I think it's a really stupid way to interview. Anyways, I agree with you: The best and funnest interviews -- and therefore the interviews I feel most comfortable (and therefore able to really show what I know) -- are the pair programming interviews. You build a special rapport with a single developer on the team, who gets a really good idea of the kind of coder you are. It's like a nice, calm conversation about technology.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Scarbutt 11y ago
nice hobby you got there ;) What do you if the company wants to hire you?
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  Obviously, if the offer is better that what you already have, you seriously consider accepting it. Otherwise, you tell them that their offer is not competitive, and maybe the next monkey to come along chasing their peanut can benefit from your feedback.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
bgribble 11y ago
While I appreciate that this process has been great for you, I would think that it probably sucks for all the engineers and managers whose time you took up interviewing "for fun". Have you ever tried to hire engineers? It is a pain in the ass, and giving serious consideration to every candidate takes up a huge amount of time even before the interview, much less taking a significant chunk of a day for a significant chunk of the team to actually do the interview. If I found out someone had interviewed with me "for fun" I would be very tempted to send them a bill for "employment search consulting services" at my team's market rate per man hour!
- sotojuan 11y ago
  A lot of people do this though—my finance friends have been interviewing for internships and jobs there's no way they could get for fun and practice. Essentially they've wasted people's times for 2-3 years so by now that they're seniors any interview is a piece of cake. I guess that's more useful than just for fun though.
- busterarm 11y ago
  You go into this process knowing that it consumes time and that not everything is going to pan out. If you had the data and processes to identify the perfect candidate, you wouldn't need to bring people in to interview. It's not waste, it's data collection. If you're not building usable data out of your interview process, your hiring process sucks. My team was interviewing candidates recently and we brought in a guy that was great on paper and in the interview but we had other candidates scheduled and two of them ended up blowing the first guy away. I'm glad we delayed that hiring decision until we had an appropriate amount of data. Also, think of it like dating (or any other matching market). Being outcome-dependent says nothing about your candidates but a lot (that's unattractive) about you. The best way to do things is to build good relationships. Your company and your developers should have a network of people you can bring in at any time to interview for a position. As a developer you should also have a network of contacts to know who needs developers. Instead you're waiting till you're desperate and coming off as needy. If I see that, I'm going to ask for a lot more money or as an employer offer less. Thankfully for my wallet, almost everyone else is in the same boat as you. ...and if I'm out interviewing for fun and find a better fit, I'm probably going to take it.
ryandrake 11y ago
I love the idea of interviewing for practice, and would do it myself, but I only have 10 vacation days a year to blow. How do you manage it? Pretend to be sick? (naughty, naughty)
- fapjacks 11y ago
  Most companies are pretty flexible about interviewing you if you ask, and also my work hours are flexible where I'm at, in addition to my already being able to work from anywhere at least some of the time (in fact this is near the top of the list of non-negotiable things I look for in a job). I can work around an interview pretty easily, especially because I'm already nearby. I have only had to take vacation to interview one or two times. All the other times I just make it work. But to address your question, I do in fact sometimes "pretend to be sick", because someone very wise once taught me as a young programmer to take "blue flu" days away from the office to help maintain a good work-life balance. I think this alone has been instrumental in preventing burn-out, because I am also at times the kind of person to work hard without any kind of break, which I think can be detrimental. When I mentor, I try to pass this along. You should take blue flu days, too!
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    That's great if you live in an area with a bunch of companies you want to work at. If, like me, you don't you end up having to use vacation days and make up excuses for short-notice one and two day absences.

Zigurd 11y ago

That's an excellent approach. It's quick enough to get meaningful results, it's interactive, and it's not artificial in the wtf-coding-without-an-ide way that whiteboard coding is like.

sotojuan 11y ago
Yep, it's good because: * Tests your knowledge of the language/framework * Tests your problem solving and bug fixing abilities and workflow * Tests your debugging skills * Tests your ability to work with other people Not all of these are crucial (except the last one), but this format tests what is most relevant.