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What specific solutions are you recommending to reverse climate change? Ban fossil fuels? Force everyone to buy Teslas (which ironically depend on fossil fuels)

What specific solutions are you recommending to reverse climate change? Ban fossil fuels? Force everyone to buy Teslas (which ironically depend on fossil fuels)?

epistasis 11y ago
There are sooooo many that have been proposed. A revenue neutral carbon tax at about $80/ton is popular enough that oil companies use it in their planning for the future. The "right" has favored cap and trade schemes in the past (specifically Reagan), but suddenly became allergic to the idea. Your "solutions" are ridiculous anti-market solutions, presumably exaggerations that you would use to describe the solutions that have actually been proposed? Also, Teslas and other electric vehicles do not depend on fossil fuels, even if they can potentially be powered by fossil fuels (at much higher efficiencies than fossil fuel vehicles)
- hueving 11y ago
  >Also, Teslas and other electric vehicles do not depend on fossil fuels, even if they can potentially be powered by fossil fuels (at much higher efficiencies than fossil fuel vehicles) Of course they do. They are made of materials that depend on fossil fuels for extraction. To pretend otherwise is completely idiotic. Everything that doesn't come from plants has to be mined and mining is energy intensive.
  - epistasis 11y ago
    It's "completely idiotic" to think that mining can only be done with fossil fuels. Energy is fungible. It doesn't matter if it's energy intensive, industry and mining can succeed without fossil fuels just fine.
    - makomk 11y ago
      Technically speaking all the plastic used is made from fossil fuels, but taking fossil fuels and turning them into something that we'll bury in holes in the ground instead of burning them probably isn't a bad thing when talking about global warming.
    - hueving 11y ago
      Show me a mine that currently runs without fossil fuels. Once we have haul trucks that are battery powered, then maybe there is something to discuss.
      - epistasis 11y ago
        Is your entire contention that haul trucks Could not be run on electricity or on biofuels or on synthetic fuels? These seem like very fragile assumptions.
  - jellicle 11y ago
    What does energy have to do with fossil fuels?
    - hueving 11y ago
      There is no useful haul truck powered by batteries.
      - tremon 11y ago
        yet
- ryanobjc 11y ago
  I'm enjoying your exchange buts it's obvious the other side has a serious agenda to push, and it's not "let's realistically make the world better". I just wanted to say that "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" seems to be a common tactic along with high levels of straw person arguments.
TillE 11y ago
For the past 15 years or so, Germany has been pursuing an aggressive plan to switch entirely to renewable power, which includes building out lots of wind and solar. Some say it's not fast enough, but it's still pretty impressive, especially for a country so far from the equator. I think the country is around 30% renewable by now. Bear in mind, this is absolutely necessary for the entire world at some point. Fossil fuels will not last forever. Best start now and not procrastinate. In terms of specific policy to pursue: basically lots of subsidies.
- vardump 11y ago
  Germans also pay 30 cents per kWh. There are projections it'll be 50 cents per kWh in the future. Renewable power is unfortunately expensive.
  - codecamper 11y ago
    So are 1.2 trillion sandbags. All the power in my camper is provided by solar energy. I paid maybe $500 for the system, including a lithium ion battery. It will provide power for the next 25 years for two people, using computers all day long and plenty of bright lights at night. Solar power is hella cheap. People need to stop whining.
    - Laforet 11y ago
      It is cheap because manufacturing was subsidised by cheaper dirty coal-fired electricity. Solar panels today are essentially overpriced batteries that require years of time and sunshine to discharge. 10 years ago most solar panels barely returned 50% of the energy expended to make them. At least we seems to be getting close to the breakeven point. P.S. I really doubt that the panel will last 25 years, and the battery is likely to go poof even sooner.
      - codecamper 11y ago
        The battery is Lifepo4 chemistry with a good solar controller from electrodacus.com. I typically drain to about 65% so these are considered shallow cycles. I think the battery will go for 15 years & the panels too. So 25 years was a bit of a stretch but 15 years electricity for $500 was pretty OK. Solar energy really is cheap. There are many parts of the world where it makes the most financial sense.

What specific solutions are you recommending to reverse climate change? Ban fossil fuels? Force everyone to buy Teslas (which ironically depend on fossil fuels)?

epistasis 11y ago

There are sooooo many that have been proposed. A revenue neutral carbon tax at about $80/ton is popular enough that oil companies use it in their planning for the future. The "right" has favored cap and trade schemes in the past (specifically Reagan), but suddenly became allergic to the idea. Your "solutions" are ridiculous anti-market solutions, presumably exaggerations that you would use to describe the solutions that have actually been proposed? Also, Teslas and other electric vehicles do not depend on fossil fuels, even if they can potentially be powered by fossil fuels (at much higher efficiencies than fossil fuel vehicles)

hueving 11y ago
>Also, Teslas and other electric vehicles do not depend on fossil fuels, even if they can potentially be powered by fossil fuels (at much higher efficiencies than fossil fuel vehicles) Of course they do. They are made of materials that depend on fossil fuels for extraction. To pretend otherwise is completely idiotic. Everything that doesn't come from plants has to be mined and mining is energy intensive.
- epistasis 11y ago
  It's "completely idiotic" to think that mining can only be done with fossil fuels. Energy is fungible. It doesn't matter if it's energy intensive, industry and mining can succeed without fossil fuels just fine.
  - makomk 11y ago
    Technically speaking all the plastic used is made from fossil fuels, but taking fossil fuels and turning them into something that we'll bury in holes in the ground instead of burning them probably isn't a bad thing when talking about global warming.
  - hueving 11y ago
    Show me a mine that currently runs without fossil fuels. Once we have haul trucks that are battery powered, then maybe there is something to discuss.
    - epistasis 11y ago
      Is your entire contention that haul trucks Could not be run on electricity or on biofuels or on synthetic fuels? These seem like very fragile assumptions.
- jellicle 11y ago
  What does energy have to do with fossil fuels?
  - hueving 11y ago
    There is no useful haul truck powered by batteries.
    - tremon 11y ago
      yet
ryanobjc 11y ago
I'm enjoying your exchange buts it's obvious the other side has a serious agenda to push, and it's not "let's realistically make the world better". I just wanted to say that "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" seems to be a common tactic along with high levels of straw person arguments.

TillE 11y ago

For the past 15 years or so, Germany has been pursuing an aggressive plan to switch entirely to renewable power, which includes building out lots of wind and solar. Some say it's not fast enough, but it's still pretty impressive, especially for a country so far from the equator. I think the country is around 30% renewable by now. Bear in mind, this is absolutely necessary for the entire world at some point. Fossil fuels will not last forever. Best start now and not procrastinate. In terms of specific policy to pursue: basically lots of subsidies.

vardump 11y ago
Germans also pay 30 cents per kWh. There are projections it'll be 50 cents per kWh in the future. Renewable power is unfortunately expensive.
- codecamper 11y ago
  So are 1.2 trillion sandbags. All the power in my camper is provided by solar energy. I paid maybe $500 for the system, including a lithium ion battery. It will provide power for the next 25 years for two people, using computers all day long and plenty of bright lights at night. Solar power is hella cheap. People need to stop whining.
  - Laforet 11y ago
    It is cheap because manufacturing was subsidised by cheaper dirty coal-fired electricity. Solar panels today are essentially overpriced batteries that require years of time and sunshine to discharge. 10 years ago most solar panels barely returned 50% of the energy expended to make them. At least we seems to be getting close to the breakeven point. P.S. I really doubt that the panel will last 25 years, and the battery is likely to go poof even sooner.
    - codecamper 11y ago
      The battery is Lifepo4 chemistry with a good solar controller from electrodacus.com. I typically drain to about 65% so these are considered shallow cycles. I think the battery will go for 15 years & the panels too. So 25 years was a bit of a stretch but 15 years electricity for $500 was pretty OK. Solar energy really is cheap. There are many parts of the world where it makes the most financial sense.