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Some long term thoughts: 1) Linux has won the server (web) market. Developers would like to use a Unix box to work on their server code so they typically move

by icefox 11y ago

Some long term thoughts: 1) Linux has won the server (web) market. Developers would like to use a Unix box to work on their server code so they typically move to OS X. This could prevent that switch because they can still use Windows to developer their Linux server software. 2) Many projects start out as Linux and stay Linux and are only ported after much time and effort to Windows. Enterprises when faced with a tool that they want to use will also look to switch off Windows. Now rather than the cost of switching they only have to pay to upgrade their windows boxes to use the tool. 3) There is now a major incentive for developers to only build Linux binaries because it will work more places. This might cause a faster drain of developers as they eventually remove all windows specific code and can more easily migrate elsewhere. This feels eerily similar to the OS2 story and no doubt in the next week I expect to see more than a few articles discussing this very thing. 4) It will be much easier for Microsoft to bring much loved Linux tools to Windows so you can expect to see a more rapid increase of tools announced that now work for Windows. 5) Games: What about the graphical layer? Can I write the majority of my game as a Linux binary and only have the rendering bit left over to separately implement for Linux/Windows? Will this spur an increase of cross platform games?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
cbhl 11y ago
I imagine that 3) and 5) are hedged by how well Visual Studio is doing.
sbarre 11y ago
Your first point describes me exactly (and many other developers I know). I grew up a Windows user, and switched to OS X because of the unix-like command line environment that more closely matched the servers I was working with in my job environments. I would most likely switch back to Windows as my primary/only machine (because I also like to play video games sometimes) if I had the same kind of unix-like command line environment that I get in OS X. Right now I basically need 2 computers at home to meet all my needs, but this would allow me to reduce it to one, so I could get a much better one (instead of the 2 mid-range ones I have now).
- 13of40 11y ago
  > I grew up a Windows user, and switched to OS X because of the unix-like command line environment that more closely matched the servers I was working with in my job environments. Out of curiosity, why would you not just go with a Linux desktop for that?
  - noelsusman 11y ago
    I'm not that guy but I followed a similar path. For me, there is no laptop that truly competes with the MBP and runs Linux with no issues (I've never liked Thinkpads). The recent Dell XPS Dev model is the only product that has come close, but before that there was basically nothing. I always use Linux for desktops., I see no reason not to.
  - Dobbs 11y ago
    Not the OP, but for me at least I did. And it was unstable and didn't work very well. My OSX laptop "just works", that isn't to say it doesn't have issues but the amount of time I spend futzing about because of driver issues, sound issues or wifi issues is drastically reduced.
  - centrinoblue 11y ago
    as someone with a similar history (front-end dev) I switched from Windows to linux after XP and then on to OSX in order to develop for iOS apps. I would never go back to windows but would happily move back to linux if I had to EDIT: I should note I didn't expect to like my Macbook air so much (fantastic machine)
  - uxp 11y ago
    I'm not who you asked, but because I like to spend my day debugging my terrible code, not my desktop. Before you ask, yes I do have a Linux laptop (Acer C720P ChromeBook, unlocked with Debian + Gnome), and with all the sudden issues that pop out of seemingly nowhere (my latest dragon is a recurrent kernel module crash that can fill my disk up with .core files in 10 minutes), I've switched back to a 13" rMBP. Though, I have heard that 2016 is going to be the year of the Linux Desktop...
TillE 11y ago
On a practical level, this doesn't change anything for games. Anyone writing games for Linux is already using cross-platform tech like SDL or OpenGL or Allegro, or one of the many increasingly popular high-level engines. Well, I guess it'll be easier to port roguelikes which use ncurses.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  I'm really hoping this allows me to compile LibreOffice on Windows. Perhaps if I worked out how to incorporate the WINE libraries it might make my life easier...
  - simoncion 11y ago
    > I'm really hoping this allows me to compile LibreOffice on Windows. Is this not helpful? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWindows https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWi... LibreOffice has official Windows builds, so I would expect that they can already build the software on Windows.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      It means I need to install Visual Studio. Right now I'm only developing on Mac OS X and Linux. On top of this, every time Microsoft updates Visual Studio, things like firebird tend to break :( I'd rather use a toolchain I know better. In fact, I'd love to use clang on Windows.
      - voltagex_ 11y ago
        The latest Visual Studios support clang.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        > It means I need to install Visual Studio. I mean, sure, but (unless things have changed dramatically in the many years since I was a Windows dev) you don't have to do anything more than install VS. The compilers and nmake can be used without opening the GUI. IIRC, you can feed a VS project file (or -I'm pretty sure- a solution file) to nmake and get the same result you'd get from loading the GUI and pressing build.
yoklov 11y ago
I wouldn't expect (commercial) games to use this, even indies. Gamers (on Windows) are extremely harsh if you ship a buggy product, and this tends to be what happens for most linux ports. Gamers on linux are more forgiving since it's very hard to guarantee quality on linux, so they're more used to it. I'd be surprised if anybody wants to give that up on windows.

by icefox 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

cbhl 11y ago

I imagine that 3) and 5) are hedged by how well Visual Studio is doing.

sbarre 11y ago

Your first point describes me exactly (and many other developers I know). I grew up a Windows user, and switched to OS X because of the unix-like command line environment that more closely matched the servers I was working with in my job environments. I would most likely switch back to Windows as my primary/only machine (because I also like to play video games sometimes) if I had the same kind of unix-like command line environment that I get in OS X. Right now I basically need 2 computers at home to meet all my needs, but this would allow me to reduce it to one, so I could get a much better one (instead of the 2 mid-range ones I have now).

13of40 11y ago
> I grew up a Windows user, and switched to OS X because of the unix-like command line environment that more closely matched the servers I was working with in my job environments. Out of curiosity, why would you not just go with a Linux desktop for that?
- noelsusman 11y ago
  I'm not that guy but I followed a similar path. For me, there is no laptop that truly competes with the MBP and runs Linux with no issues (I've never liked Thinkpads). The recent Dell XPS Dev model is the only product that has come close, but before that there was basically nothing. I always use Linux for desktops., I see no reason not to.
- Dobbs 11y ago
  Not the OP, but for me at least I did. And it was unstable and didn't work very well. My OSX laptop "just works", that isn't to say it doesn't have issues but the amount of time I spend futzing about because of driver issues, sound issues or wifi issues is drastically reduced.
- centrinoblue 11y ago
  as someone with a similar history (front-end dev) I switched from Windows to linux after XP and then on to OSX in order to develop for iOS apps. I would never go back to windows but would happily move back to linux if I had to EDIT: I should note I didn't expect to like my Macbook air so much (fantastic machine)
- uxp 11y ago
  I'm not who you asked, but because I like to spend my day debugging my terrible code, not my desktop. Before you ask, yes I do have a Linux laptop (Acer C720P ChromeBook, unlocked with Debian + Gnome), and with all the sudden issues that pop out of seemingly nowhere (my latest dragon is a recurrent kernel module crash that can fill my disk up with .core files in 10 minutes), I've switched back to a 13" rMBP. Though, I have heard that 2016 is going to be the year of the Linux Desktop...

TillE 11y ago

On a practical level, this doesn't change anything for games. Anyone writing games for Linux is already using cross-platform tech like SDL or OpenGL or Allegro, or one of the many increasingly popular high-level engines. Well, I guess it'll be easier to port roguelikes which use ncurses.

chris_wot 11y ago
I'm really hoping this allows me to compile LibreOffice on Windows. Perhaps if I worked out how to incorporate the WINE libraries it might make my life easier...
- simoncion 11y ago
  > I'm really hoping this allows me to compile LibreOffice on Windows. Is this not helpful? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWindows https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWi... LibreOffice has official Windows builds, so I would expect that they can already build the software on Windows.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    It means I need to install Visual Studio. Right now I'm only developing on Mac OS X and Linux. On top of this, every time Microsoft updates Visual Studio, things like firebird tend to break :( I'd rather use a toolchain I know better. In fact, I'd love to use clang on Windows.
    - voltagex_ 11y ago
      The latest Visual Studios support clang.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      > It means I need to install Visual Studio. I mean, sure, but (unless things have changed dramatically in the many years since I was a Windows dev) you don't have to do anything more than install VS. The compilers and nmake can be used without opening the GUI. IIRC, you can feed a VS project file (or -I'm pretty sure- a solution file) to nmake and get the same result you'd get from loading the GUI and pressing build.

yoklov 11y ago

I wouldn't expect (commercial) games to use this, even indies. Gamers (on Windows) are extremely harsh if you ship a buggy product, and this tends to be what happens for most linux ports. Gamers on linux are more forgiving since it's very hard to guarantee quality on linux, so they're more used to it. I'd be surprised if anybody wants to give that up on windows.