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That's being pedantic, honestly. Yes, technically Linux is only the kernel and technically running the Ubuntu run-time on a different kernel isn't running Linux

That's being pedantic, honestly. Yes, technically Linux is only the kernel and technically running the Ubuntu run-time on a different kernel isn't running Linux. However, "Linux" is almost always a reference to GNU tools and the Linux Kernel. It may not be semantically accurate, but take that up with the same people that made literally mean both itself and its opposite.

bitwize 11y ago
That's being pedantic, honestly. Let's try the opposite. Say someone got Wine working to the point where it was very nearly, perfectly indistiguishable from Windows and they put up a blog post saying "Everything works just as it should under Windows, because it is Windows." Microsoft's lawyers would come around with a C&D, and calling them pedants wouldn't invalidate their case. He could have said "it's just like Linux, right down to the kernel interface" or "Everything works just like Ubuntu, because the userland is Ubuntu". Succinct and correct. Precision matters.
- bitcrazed 11y ago
  Your points are fair, but color with the fact that the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is build to be distro-agnostic. We picked Ubuntu in this first version due to its popularity with developers, but there are few technical reasons (other than us fully and accurately implementing the necessary syscalls) why it shouldn't support other distro's userland environments in the future. Knowing this, what should we call it? Windows Subsystem for Running POSIX + Linux Syscall API Compatible Userland Tools? WSRPLSACUMT? :) I'm genuinely interested on what you all feel would be a good way to think about naming moving forward.
  - bitwize 11y ago
    There's nothing wrong with "Windows Subsystem for Linux". But there's a difference between "This is Ubuntu running on WSL" or "This is Ubuntu running on our Linux compatibility layer", and "This is Linux".
  - JdeBP 11y ago
    > I'm genuinely interested on what you all feel would be a good way to think about naming moving forward. I did actually give this some thought, for what it's worth. There are problems with "GNU" in the name and problems with "Ubuntu" in the name. But it seems to me that Microsoft has a naming scheme that it is perhaps unaware of. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11417059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11417059 . (-:
- jhall1468 11y ago
  > Let's try the opposite. Say someone got Wine working to the point where it was very nearly, perfectly indistiguishable from Windows and they put up a blog post saying "Everything works just as it should under Windows, because it is Windows." Microsoft's lawyers would come around with a C&D, and calling them pedants wouldn't invalidate their case. Except that isn't the opposite, it's an entirely different situation. 1) It isn't Windows. It's a complete rewrite of the Windows API's. That is not the same thing that's happening here. 2) A C&D isn't a case, it's a piece of paper (politely) asking you to do something. Calling something Windows and it actually being an infringement on Windows patents are entirely different issues. > Precision matters. In carefully crafted theoretical situations feigning as analogies to this situation? Sure. In the real world? Hardly.
fucking_tragedy 11y ago
Android is Linux, but doesn't have your traditional GNU or minimal busybox userland that you'd expect. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is Debian, but it isn't Linux. Mac OS X with GNU tools via MacPorts/Fink/Homebrew is OS X with a GNU userland, but it isn't Linux. Windows 10 with an Ubuntu userland is Ubuntu, but it isn't Linux. Linux is a kernel.
- jhall1468 11y ago
  Thank you for proving my point on being pedantic.
  - JdeBP 11y ago
    Xe appears to have proven the opposite of your point, if anything.
Joeboy 11y ago
Can somebody tell me straightforwardly whether a linux kernel is actually involved in this WinBuntu thing or not?
- johnmaguire2013 11y ago
  No, it is not. > A team of sharp developers at Microsoft has been hard at work adapting some Microsoft research technology to basically perform real time translation of Linux syscalls into Windows OS syscalls. Linux geeks can think of it sort of the inverse of "wine" -- Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows. http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.htm...

bitwize 11y ago

That's being pedantic, honestly. Let's try the opposite. Say someone got Wine working to the point where it was very nearly, perfectly indistiguishable from Windows and they put up a blog post saying "Everything works just as it should under Windows, because it is Windows." Microsoft's lawyers would come around with a C&D, and calling them pedants wouldn't invalidate their case. He could have said "it's just like Linux, right down to the kernel interface" or "Everything works just like Ubuntu, because the userland is Ubuntu". Succinct and correct. Precision matters.

bitcrazed 11y ago
Your points are fair, but color with the fact that the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is build to be distro-agnostic. We picked Ubuntu in this first version due to its popularity with developers, but there are few technical reasons (other than us fully and accurately implementing the necessary syscalls) why it shouldn't support other distro's userland environments in the future. Knowing this, what should we call it? Windows Subsystem for Running POSIX + Linux Syscall API Compatible Userland Tools? WSRPLSACUMT? :) I'm genuinely interested on what you all feel would be a good way to think about naming moving forward.
- bitwize 11y ago
  There's nothing wrong with "Windows Subsystem for Linux". But there's a difference between "This is Ubuntu running on WSL" or "This is Ubuntu running on our Linux compatibility layer", and "This is Linux".
- JdeBP 11y ago
  > I'm genuinely interested on what you all feel would be a good way to think about naming moving forward. I did actually give this some thought, for what it's worth. There are problems with "GNU" in the name and problems with "Ubuntu" in the name. But it seems to me that Microsoft has a naming scheme that it is perhaps unaware of. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11417059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11417059 . (-:
jhall1468 11y ago
> Let's try the opposite. Say someone got Wine working to the point where it was very nearly, perfectly indistiguishable from Windows and they put up a blog post saying "Everything works just as it should under Windows, because it is Windows." Microsoft's lawyers would come around with a C&D, and calling them pedants wouldn't invalidate their case. Except that isn't the opposite, it's an entirely different situation. 1) It isn't Windows. It's a complete rewrite of the Windows API's. That is not the same thing that's happening here. 2) A C&D isn't a case, it's a piece of paper (politely) asking you to do something. Calling something Windows and it actually being an infringement on Windows patents are entirely different issues. > Precision matters. In carefully crafted theoretical situations feigning as analogies to this situation? Sure. In the real world? Hardly.

fucking_tragedy 11y ago

Android is Linux, but doesn't have your traditional GNU or minimal busybox userland that you'd expect. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is Debian, but it isn't Linux. Mac OS X with GNU tools via MacPorts/Fink/Homebrew is OS X with a GNU userland, but it isn't Linux. Windows 10 with an Ubuntu userland is Ubuntu, but it isn't Linux. Linux is a kernel.

jhall1468 11y ago
Thank you for proving my point on being pedantic.
- JdeBP 11y ago
  Xe appears to have proven the opposite of your point, if anything.

Joeboy 11y ago

Can somebody tell me straightforwardly whether a linux kernel is actually involved in this WinBuntu thing or not?

johnmaguire2013 11y ago
No, it is not. > A team of sharp developers at Microsoft has been hard at work adapting some Microsoft research technology to basically perform real time translation of Linux syscalls into Windows OS syscalls. Linux geeks can think of it sort of the inverse of "wine" -- Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows. http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.htm...