5 ms·

"But there are some imperfections still, especially around tty's an the vt100. My beloved byobu, screen, and tmux don't quite work yet, but they're getting clo

by 80x25 11y ago

"But there are some imperfections still, especially around tty's an the vt100. My beloved byobu, screen, and tmux don't quite work yet, but they're getting close!" If they actually fix these imperfections, that would be fantastic. It would address a number issues that are "unfixable" in Cygwin flavors of utilities/apps.

rspeer 11y ago
It sounds like this would involve tweaking conhost.exe so that it understands all the vt100 sequences, as well as UTF-8. (I hope they wouldn't assume everyone's tmux setup uses only characters from codepage 437.) If they did that, it would also fix the awfulness of Python's stdout on Windows!
- marshray 11y ago
  I was watching the stream and I think they said Windows console host will, in fact, directly support VT-100.
- anonymfus 11y ago
  >as well as UTF-8. UTF-8 was always available as codepage 65001.
  - batat 11y ago
    It's terribly broken https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/e4b91f49-6f60-4ffe-887a-e18e39250905/possible-bugs-in-writefile-and-crt-unicode-issues?forum=vcgeneral https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/e4b91... Seems to work only with WriteConsoleOutputW(), while C I/O behaves unpredictably.
- JdeBP 11y ago
  > I hope they wouldn't assume everyone's tmux setup uses only characters from codepage 437. I hope that people here aren't assuming that terminals are all VT100 clones. (-: The old (Interix) Windows NT POSIX subsystem added escape sequence recognition to Windows consoles when POSIX programs were using them as their terminal output. Such terminals match up with an "Interix" terminal type in the termcap and terminfo databases. Their escape sequence set is not the same as any DEC VT type. The Dickey ncurses termcap database has an "interix|opennt|ntconsole" entry, although I have encountered systems with ncurses but without this termcap entry and had to add it myself. It is, apparently, wrong. David Given has a different one in LBW. * https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/bb463194.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/bb463194.aspx * http://invisible-island.net/ncurses/colored-terminfo.src.html http://invisible-island.net/ncurses/colored-terminfo.src.htm... * https://developer.mozilla.org/en-GB/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Build_Instructions/Building_on_Windows_with_SFU_%28Interix%29 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-GB/docs/Mozilla/Developer_g... * https://github.com/sedwards/lbw/blob/master/extras/interix.termcap https://github.com/sedwards/lbw/blob/master/extras/interix.t...
JdeBP 11y ago
The reason why they don't work was actually on-screen, very briefly until Russ Alexander cleared it (again), in the Microsoft demo video. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11415843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11415843 .

by 80x25 11y ago

rspeer 11y ago

It sounds like this would involve tweaking conhost.exe so that it understands all the vt100 sequences, as well as UTF-8. (I hope they wouldn't assume everyone's tmux setup uses only characters from codepage 437.) If they did that, it would also fix the awfulness of Python's stdout on Windows!

marshray 11y ago
I was watching the stream and I think they said Windows console host will, in fact, directly support VT-100.
anonymfus 11y ago
>as well as UTF-8. UTF-8 was always available as codepage 65001.
- batat 11y ago
  It's terribly broken https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/e4b91f49-6f60-4ffe-887a-e18e39250905/possible-bugs-in-writefile-and-crt-unicode-issues?forum=vcgeneral https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/e4b91... Seems to work only with WriteConsoleOutputW(), while C I/O behaves unpredictably.
JdeBP 11y ago
> I hope they wouldn't assume everyone's tmux setup uses only characters from codepage 437. I hope that people here aren't assuming that terminals are all VT100 clones. (-: The old (Interix) Windows NT POSIX subsystem added escape sequence recognition to Windows consoles when POSIX programs were using them as their terminal output. Such terminals match up with an "Interix" terminal type in the termcap and terminfo databases. Their escape sequence set is not the same as any DEC VT type. The Dickey ncurses termcap database has an "interix|opennt|ntconsole" entry, although I have encountered systems with ncurses but without this termcap entry and had to add it myself. It is, apparently, wrong. David Given has a different one in LBW. * https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/bb463194.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/bb463194.aspx * http://invisible-island.net/ncurses/colored-terminfo.src.html http://invisible-island.net/ncurses/colored-terminfo.src.htm... * https://developer.mozilla.org/en-GB/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Build_Instructions/Building_on_Windows_with_SFU_%28Interix%29 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-GB/docs/Mozilla/Developer_g... * https://github.com/sedwards/lbw/blob/master/extras/interix.termcap https://github.com/sedwards/lbw/blob/master/extras/interix.t...

JdeBP 11y ago

The reason why they don't work was actually on-screen, very briefly until Russ Alexander cleared it (again), in the Microsoft demo video. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11415843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11415843 .