4 ms·

SunEdison at risk of bankruptcy, unit says; shares plummet 60 percent

68 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

chollida1 11y ago
You can go down the financial "shenanigans" red flags checklist with SUNE - complex accounting structure that includes many sub companies funneling money and debt from one to another, check - late on filing their financials, in fact today is the last day they have to file to be in good standing with the SEC, check - huge amount of debt relative to revenue, check - SEC investigation into their accounting practices, check - rapid growth in the past that was mostly due to heavily financed acquisitions, check. - high short interest ratio, check. Though to be fair to the last point their SI has come down alot in the past couple of months as the stock became too expensive to hold borrow, and now that its at 50 cents/share, its not longer a good short target as the upside/downside is no longer that compelling. People probably have KBIO still fresh in their minds:)
- stygiansonic 11y ago
  I wonder why or perhaps how SUNE became a hedge fund hotel? Does it have anything to do with the factors you mentioned making it more "attractive" to certain types of hedge funds? "Mr. Einhorn is not the only one to have suffered a blow from SunEdison last year. And he is not the only voice to go up against the company, which has become a so-called hedge fund hotel, with more than 160 hedge funds in the stock in September, according to report by the research firm Novus." http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/business/dealbook/david-einhorn-gets-a-seat-on-sunedison-board.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/business/dealbook/david-ei...
  - cossatot 11y ago
    It might have to do with increasing state subsidies for and regulations requiring renewable energy[1] as well as major, image-sensitive investors like CalPERS wanting to get rid of their fossil fuel holdings. These could both increase the price of SUNE et al relative to a straight business fundamentals value. [1]: e.g. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-jerry-brown-climate-change-renewable-energy-20151007-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-jerry-brown-clima...
- mgleason_3 11y ago
  Didn't SunEdison get a bunch of money from Obama?
tkinom 11y ago
Heard an ad on NPR popcast show about "invest in solar" with 10% guarantee return. Wonder if that's related to this?
- smpetrey 11y ago
  I don't know about 10%... but SolarCity has a Bond programme. https://solarbonds.solarcity.com https://solarbonds.solarcity.com
- zevets 11y ago
  What's the risk of default if the subsidy structure for solar goes kaput ie nevada?
n0us 11y ago
Anyone who follows /r/wallstreetbets on reddit has probably heard a lot about this company recently. I didn't read most of the posts but it seems that most of them either hit it out of the park or went home tail between their legs on this one. (I never day trade because I don't want to toss my money in the trash but it's interesting to follow) Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/4clo1y/i_took_out_a_second_mortage_and_yolod_sune/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/4clo1y/i_to... seems many of them lost
- kchoudhu 11y ago
  Serious question about /r/wallstreetbets: is that sub a parody, or a collection of people with undiagnosed gambling issues?
  - n0us 11y ago
    It's comparable to Shekreli (one of their heros) raising the price of that drug and then treating it like a joke. They do things most sane people would never imagine, almost a competition to see who can be the most reckless. So in a sense it is serious in that many of them actually do trade. It's a joke in the sense that they treat it like one. Kind of like /r/theDonald
  - nabaraz 11y ago
    Both. I feel like there are ~some~ few really smart people in there.
  - endymi0n 11y ago
    Funnily enough, viewing what you're doing there as "trading" comes a long way in hiding your gambling habit from both yourself and others. So much so, that certain extremely short running "binary options" trading platforms at least here in Germany do little to hide that they're offering a completely legal and unregulated form of gambling by showing plumbers and haircutters "earning money" by "trading" on these platforms in prime time TV ads.
  - fweespee_ch 11y ago
    Both. I'm active in there under a trolling account and I've had some serious conversations with some of the people outside of Reddit.
paulpauper 11y ago
wish I had bought put option on this. PBR (petro Brazil ) may also be at risk there are probably a couple dozen such energy,mining ,drilling, etc companies that may fall 50% in a week. A 4 cent investment ($4 per contract) can turn into $1-1.5 ($150) if the timing is right
throwaway_xx9 11y ago
Well, I guess SunEdison couldn't get a monopoly on solar energy. Who knew?

68 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

You can go down the financial "shenanigans" red flags checklist with SUNE - complex accounting structure that includes many sub companies funneling money and debt from one to another, check - late on filing their financials, in fact today is the last day they have to file to be in good standing with the SEC, check - huge amount of debt relative to revenue, check - SEC investigation into their accounting practices, check - rapid growth in the past that was mostly due to heavily financed acquisitions, check. - high short interest ratio, check. Though to be fair to the last point their SI has come down alot in the past couple of months as the stock became too expensive to hold borrow, and now that its at 50 cents/share, its not longer a good short target as the upside/downside is no longer that compelling. People probably have KBIO still fresh in their minds:)

stygiansonic 11y ago
I wonder why or perhaps how SUNE became a hedge fund hotel? Does it have anything to do with the factors you mentioned making it more "attractive" to certain types of hedge funds? "Mr. Einhorn is not the only one to have suffered a blow from SunEdison last year. And he is not the only voice to go up against the company, which has become a so-called hedge fund hotel, with more than 160 hedge funds in the stock in September, according to report by the research firm Novus." http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/business/dealbook/david-einhorn-gets-a-seat-on-sunedison-board.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/business/dealbook/david-ei...
- cossatot 11y ago
  It might have to do with increasing state subsidies for and regulations requiring renewable energy[1] as well as major, image-sensitive investors like CalPERS wanting to get rid of their fossil fuel holdings. These could both increase the price of SUNE et al relative to a straight business fundamentals value. [1]: e.g. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-jerry-brown-climate-change-renewable-energy-20151007-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-jerry-brown-clima...
mgleason_3 11y ago
Didn't SunEdison get a bunch of money from Obama?

tkinom 11y ago

Heard an ad on NPR popcast show about "invest in solar" with 10% guarantee return. Wonder if that's related to this?

smpetrey 11y ago
I don't know about 10%... but SolarCity has a Bond programme. https://solarbonds.solarcity.com https://solarbonds.solarcity.com
zevets 11y ago
What's the risk of default if the subsidy structure for solar goes kaput ie nevada?

n0us 11y ago

Anyone who follows /r/wallstreetbets on reddit has probably heard a lot about this company recently. I didn't read most of the posts but it seems that most of them either hit it out of the park or went home tail between their legs on this one. (I never day trade because I don't want to toss my money in the trash but it's interesting to follow) Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/4clo1y/i_took_out_a_second_mortage_and_yolod_sune/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/4clo1y/i_to... seems many of them lost

kchoudhu 11y ago
Serious question about /r/wallstreetbets: is that sub a parody, or a collection of people with undiagnosed gambling issues?
- n0us 11y ago
  It's comparable to Shekreli (one of their heros) raising the price of that drug and then treating it like a joke. They do things most sane people would never imagine, almost a competition to see who can be the most reckless. So in a sense it is serious in that many of them actually do trade. It's a joke in the sense that they treat it like one. Kind of like /r/theDonald
- nabaraz 11y ago
  Both. I feel like there are ~some~ few really smart people in there.
- endymi0n 11y ago
  Funnily enough, viewing what you're doing there as "trading" comes a long way in hiding your gambling habit from both yourself and others. So much so, that certain extremely short running "binary options" trading platforms at least here in Germany do little to hide that they're offering a completely legal and unregulated form of gambling by showing plumbers and haircutters "earning money" by "trading" on these platforms in prime time TV ads.
- fweespee_ch 11y ago
  Both. I'm active in there under a trolling account and I've had some serious conversations with some of the people outside of Reddit.

paulpauper 11y ago

wish I had bought put option on this. PBR (petro Brazil ) may also be at risk there are probably a couple dozen such energy,mining ,drilling, etc companies that may fall 50% in a week. A 4 cent investment ($4 per contract) can turn into $1-1.5 ($150) if the timing is right

throwaway_xx9 11y ago

Well, I guess SunEdison couldn't get a monopoly on solar energy. Who knew?