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Arrow keys are the worst ergonomically. You need to be able to stay as close as possible to the home position. When my RSI got really bad I noticed how bad it c
by amasad 11y ago
Arrow keys are the worst ergonomically. You need to be able to stay as close as possible to the home position. When my RSI got really bad I noticed how bad it can be to keep reaching for the arrow keys.
- atemerev 11y agoI don't feel uncomfortable when reaching for the arrow keys with my right hand. But I _do_ feel very uncomfortable when I press wrong navigation key in Vim (was it h or j? My fingers don't _feel_ it), and it's really uncomfortable reaching for Ctrl for anything in Emacs, especially Ctrl-B — now _this_ is RSI-prone).
- dragandj 11y agoThat's why you could remap ctrl and put it just next to SPACE. Speaking of that, I also remapped Shift to space, and now I use space for both shift and space (sounds crazy, but it is ergonomically perfect!).
- amasad 11y agoTrue, emacs default key binding is also RSI-prone. I suggested going with vim's key binding (evil-mode, spcemacs) for newcomers. But I don't buy the argument that they're so hard to learn, consider it a new video game controller.
- atemerev 11y agoVideo game _controllers_ are designed to be intuitive, with many discarded attempts, lots of A/B testing and ergonomic tests. One can't say it about Emacs default layout, it is pretty much arbitrary (unlike videogame controllers). There are some games requiring memorizing controls on keyboard, like flight sims. For me, those were impossible to play, until I bought flight stick hardware, which is designed much better. And I have quite good working memory; I remember all my credit card numbers, more than 100 phone numbers, etc. — which allows me to be a decent software engineer. But I can't recognize faces, and I have problems with some tactile combinations (not all; I can blind type). But vim and Emacs are really hard to me for some reason.
- justinhj 11y agoEmacs key layout isn't arbitrary. It was optimized for a particular keyboard the original develops used. Since then the layout has changed a little but personally the keys work well for me
- TeMPOraL 11y agoRemap CTRL to CAPS LOCK. It's a pretty standard thing in Emacs world. Also, learning keybindings is a matter of your state of mind. Or rather, of your attitude. You didn't start knowing how to use arrows, you learned it at some point in your life. It took time then too. Like 'amasad wrote, treat it as a new controls for a videogame. Somehow people don't have problems with learning those.
- atemerev 11y agoSome things are inherently easy to learn and to use, because they map to innate categories (e.g. direction and size). And some things are arbitrary and require memorization. And don't get me started on videogames. When I was still playing them, I was constantly remapping keys. One can say: "OK then, it's Emacs, you can remap the keys any way you want". And believe me, I tried. And struggled with keymapping conflicts here and there (including Ergoemacs). I adore the idea of absolute configurability. I like how Emacs is built and what amount of extensions is available. I just can't use it, no matter how I tried.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoWell, I have much more problems with Vim bindings (hjkl) than with Emacs, which map to obvious concepts - #\p for "previous", #\n for "next", #\f for "forward", #\b for "backward", etc. Still, I found out that 5 to 10 minutes of focused training is enough to overcome any set of keybindings. Seriously, try that - 5 minutes, to the clock. Most people never spend more than a minute or two on a new thing, and then give up and complain it's too difficult.
- aldanor 11y agoSpend a day / a week and (re)learn to properly touch type, then you will feel uncomfortable reaching for arrow keys and you won't miss that h or j.
- wodenokoto 11y agoTo me the most painful position by far is all fingers on home position. If you ask a physical therapist what is the best way to sit on a chair they will say it is to switch position constantly. I'm not buying that it is opposite for a keyboard.
- amasad 11y agoMoving around will help blood flow and will get you to release the static contraction (or switch muscles). That affects your forearm, wrists etc and I don't think has anything to do with your fingers. For me, keeping at the home position limits wrist contortions that I associated with my increased pain.
- aldanor 11y agoThis was the case for me as well, until I got myself a split ergo keyboard. With conventional keyboards, you have to twist your wrists for your fingers to stay on the home row (even more so if you have big hands).