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While I love Ember, one of it's biggest downfalls is definitely has a longer ramp up period, and more complexity than other frameworks. Ember's documentation is
by hardwaresofton 11y ago
While I love Ember, one of it's biggest downfalls is definitely has a longer ramp up period, and more complexity than other frameworks. Ember's documentation is very good now, but still, there is a lot you have to read (and eventually experience to truly understand) about how ember works under the covers.
One of ember's greatest benefits is that it adapts to change and doesn't miss out on features for very long at all (you can look at fastboot as a reaction to isomorphic react apps, or something that the ember team would have just pursued anyway). However, that benefit can also be a pitfall for newcomers to ember as it's hard to find consistent discussion, help, and resources for a framework that changes so fast.
BTW, while Ember CLI makes things much easier, it does not improve the complexity situation, it just becomes one more thing you have to learn when learning Ember (even as a newbie). What if a newbie isn't familiar with node? what if they're not sure why you're precompiling? what if they're not familiar with task runners like grunt and gulp?
Contrasted with frameworks like Angular 1, Backbone+Marionette, Ember definitely has the most rampup and complexity, not the least.
- sotojuan 11y agoI think the CLI helps tremendously, even if you have to learn it (and for simple stuff you don't aside from `ember new` and `ember start`, maybe a few file generators). The biggest problem with beginners is setting up a JS environment—I've seen people waste hours doing it. Ember's CLI tool takes care of all of that.
- hardwaresofton 11y agoI agree it helps -- but there is a hidden cost of people not understanding all the towers of abstraction that have been built up for them, despite sitting on top of it. Ember CLI does file generation and a whole lot more. I'm not saying it shouldn't -- but that shouldn't be the easiest most approachable way to start with Ember. Why should someone have to learn all the following things: - transpiling - nodejs - npm & packaging - bower - broccoli/task runners - livereload ... just to START with a web framework? Maybe don't market Ember to beginners? Again, I like Ember, I think it's the most viable large framework out there right now -- but this is certainly an issue
- qaq 11y agoFor the 3 major frameworks it's about the same list (minus bower but Ember is phasing it out too.
- hardwaresofton 11y agoHow so? angular1 does not require you to download anything node-related, for example? Angular doesn't recommend any tooling, pretty much (just include the framework code and you're off to the races, write some html write some js)...
- sotojuan 11y agoGood points, though I'll say I've rarely seen Ember be recommended to beginners. And to be fair, the same thing has been said about React, though both Ember and React allow you to use a CDN link like in the good old days.
- orf 11y ago> I've rarely seen Ember be recommended to beginners. I started a new job and went from 0 JS (other than some JQuery and knowing the syntax) to 100 with Ember. Ember is really really good for beginners, grandparent talks of having to know transpiling, broccoli/task runners and livereload but doesn't understand that you need to know none of that to get working with Ember. Write your app by editing the files ember-cli produces. No transpiling, or add transpiling with a single 'ember install' command. Who cares about broccoli, I just edit my ember-cli-build.js file with some paths and it all works. Livereload is hardly difficult to understand, with Ember you just run "ember serve" and it also all just works.