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I couldn't read this article because the South China Morning Post website has been blocked by the Great Firewall for the past few months. Before that, though, I

by vorg 11y ago

I couldn't read this article because the South China Morning Post website has been blocked by the Great Firewall for the past few months. Before that, though, I could only access about 5 (I think) stories a month from scmp.com because they had a paywall. What's the difference between a Firewall and a paywall from a user's point of view?

nxzero 11y ago
Great Fire Wall is controled via malware, backdoors, network filtering, etc.; sort of like security firewalls, but only if compared to what a company might do to enforce their policies for what employees are able to use the Internet for. Paywalls are just a pay for access method for making money from content, and unrelated to the topic; meaning it's not like in China there a secret backdoor for the top government officials to see the real Internet; oh, wait, there likely is... :-)
- vorg 11y ago
  > Paywalls are just a pay for access method for making money from content, and unrelated to the topic I asked what the difference between a Firewall and a paywall is "from a user's point of view". At various times and in different ways it's possible to bypass the Firewall depending on how much you want to pay, e.g. using VPN's, using proxies though there's less of them around nowadays, visiting Hong Kong, getting friends overseas to scrape and email content, and the Firewall seems to fail periodically, not just from the Google change last weekend but often for a minute here, an hour there, for different websites.
  - nxzero 11y ago
    Right, though "paying" for access wasn't an official option, where paywalls are an official option; comparable to paying for VPNs to get around official Internet blocks would be more like paying for access to a file sharing site to download pirates content. There less and less "pay" options because China is getting better and better at blocking the Internet. Happy to clarify anything or try to answer any additional questions you might have.
    - vorg 11y ago
      > "paying" for access wasn't an official option Official and unofficial are two ends of a long sliding scale. Many paywalled newsites allow unlimited access if the article is accessed through links from search engines. This is an "unofficial" option. Accessing American TV shows from within China is more "unofficial". Firewalls are set up by those who claim ownership over the people using the net; paywalls are set up by those who claim ownership over the information being accessed. Not only do both those concepts of ownership sound suspect to me, but also from the user's POV the experience of a Firewall and a paywall on the official-unofficial spectrum is the same. Edit: By "paying" I meant paying with money (e.g. VPN's), with time (e.g. a day in HK), with guanxi (e.g. friends scaping and emailing sites), etc.
      - nxzero 11y ago
        Feel like you asked a question that at the very least doesn't express the issue you're facing to me, what exactly is the real problem that you personally are facing that's not overly broad; for example, how do I allow everyone in China to have access to anything on the Internet forever for free from anywhere? (Sorry, but just trying to be clear.) Also, paywalls might be defined as paid Internet access and those system often limit use of the Internet; this includes limiting access to content.
praxulus 11y ago
>What's the difference between a Firewall and a paywall from a user's point of view? 5 stories a month.
codehusker 11y ago
Paywalls prevent specific sources, Firewalls prevent specific ideas.
eveningcoffee 11y ago
The difference is in the intention of the blocking. Intention of the firewall is to block all your access to the content. Intention of the paywall is to encourage you to pay for the access to the content. The difference is also in the legal framework, especially for the people in China in case of the Great Firewall. If you pay and pass the paywall, you have not done anything wrong in the eyes of the Chinese law (assuming that the content was not blocked by the Great Firewall). Passing the Great Firewall might get you into the hot water.

by vorg 11y ago

nxzero 11y ago

Great Fire Wall is controled via malware, backdoors, network filtering, etc.; sort of like security firewalls, but only if compared to what a company might do to enforce their policies for what employees are able to use the Internet for. Paywalls are just a pay for access method for making money from content, and unrelated to the topic; meaning it's not like in China there a secret backdoor for the top government officials to see the real Internet; oh, wait, there likely is... :-)

vorg 11y ago
> Paywalls are just a pay for access method for making money from content, and unrelated to the topic I asked what the difference between a Firewall and a paywall is "from a user's point of view". At various times and in different ways it's possible to bypass the Firewall depending on how much you want to pay, e.g. using VPN's, using proxies though there's less of them around nowadays, visiting Hong Kong, getting friends overseas to scrape and email content, and the Firewall seems to fail periodically, not just from the Google change last weekend but often for a minute here, an hour there, for different websites.
- nxzero 11y ago
  Right, though "paying" for access wasn't an official option, where paywalls are an official option; comparable to paying for VPNs to get around official Internet blocks would be more like paying for access to a file sharing site to download pirates content. There less and less "pay" options because China is getting better and better at blocking the Internet. Happy to clarify anything or try to answer any additional questions you might have.
  - vorg 11y ago
    > "paying" for access wasn't an official option Official and unofficial are two ends of a long sliding scale. Many paywalled newsites allow unlimited access if the article is accessed through links from search engines. This is an "unofficial" option. Accessing American TV shows from within China is more "unofficial". Firewalls are set up by those who claim ownership over the people using the net; paywalls are set up by those who claim ownership over the information being accessed. Not only do both those concepts of ownership sound suspect to me, but also from the user's POV the experience of a Firewall and a paywall on the official-unofficial spectrum is the same. Edit: By "paying" I meant paying with money (e.g. VPN's), with time (e.g. a day in HK), with guanxi (e.g. friends scaping and emailing sites), etc.
    - nxzero 11y ago
      Feel like you asked a question that at the very least doesn't express the issue you're facing to me, what exactly is the real problem that you personally are facing that's not overly broad; for example, how do I allow everyone in China to have access to anything on the Internet forever for free from anywhere? (Sorry, but just trying to be clear.) Also, paywalls might be defined as paid Internet access and those system often limit use of the Internet; this includes limiting access to content.

praxulus 11y ago

>What's the difference between a Firewall and a paywall from a user's point of view? 5 stories a month.

codehusker 11y ago

Paywalls prevent specific sources, Firewalls prevent specific ideas.

eveningcoffee 11y ago

The difference is in the intention of the blocking. Intention of the firewall is to block all your access to the content. Intention of the paywall is to encourage you to pay for the access to the content. The difference is also in the legal framework, especially for the people in China in case of the Great Firewall. If you pay and pass the paywall, you have not done anything wrong in the eyes of the Chinese law (assuming that the content was not blocked by the Great Firewall). Passing the Great Firewall might get you into the hot water.