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802.11n Another big one for laptop users: initial support for N wireless has landed in both the iwm(4) and iwn(4) drivers. Does that mean that 802.11n wasn't

802.11n Another big one for laptop users: initial support for N wireless has landed in both the iwm(4) and iwn(4) drivers. Does that mean that 802.11n wasn't supported by OpenBSD until now? 802.11n was first available in (2010?) and is no longer the current version (802.11ac is).

nayden 11y ago
Reversing firmware without documentation takes time. Especially when a single developer does it on their spare time as a hobby.
- ashitlerferad 11y ago
  Does OpenBSD actually write open WiFi firmware?
  - antoinealb 11y ago
    No. But they still have to write drivers that will interact with those firmwares.
brynet 11y ago
802.11n is a lot more complicated than its predecessors, OpenBSD has it's own wireless stack and drivers. A lot of 11n hardware was supported in a/b/g modes only.
- cmurf 11y ago
  I've found the same on Linux with the Broadcom chips that at least Apple users in laptops. Maybe the proprietary driver supports it.
sigzero 11y ago
I imagine wireless is a "secondary" concern for the OpenBSD team given the focus on the server.
- stsp 11y ago
  Not really. Most OpenBSD developers run OpenBSD on their laptops which of course includes wifi. The real reasons are that 11a is still good enough for many use cases, and that OpenBSD's wireless developer department is seriously understaffed (apply by sending a patch).
  - silverforgotapw 11y ago
    No one uses a. It was not a 2.4Ghz radio and not compatible with the b/g/n/ac cards that came after it.
    - matthewmacleod 11y ago
      I don't think this is true - AFAIK most 5Ghz hardware supports 802.11a.
      - SyneRyder 11y ago
        While only anecdata, I've got a 5Ghz router and 802.11a is not an option (but 802.11b is).
        fulafel 11y ago
        New base stations don't typically have options for 11a-only 5 GHz, but 5 GHz capable 11n clients can still connect to older 5 GHz 11a networks. I imagine there is similar backwards compatibility to the other direction even without an explicit configuration option.
        stsp 11y ago
        Wow, so much doubt. I'd normally link Wikipedia, but this is HN so let's just quote the spec to clear this up once and for all. Legend: PHY: think of this as "wifi radio" HT: "High Throughput" aka 802.11n "Clause 20": HT PHY specification "Clause 19": 802.11g PHY specification "Clause 18": 802.11a PHY specification "Clause 17": 802.11b PHY specification STA: any 802.11 capable device [[[ 20.1.1 Introduction to the HT PHY Clause 20 specifies the PHY entity for a high throughput (HT) orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) system. In addition to the requirements found in Clause 20, an HT STA shall be capable of transmitting and receiving frames that are compliant with the mandatory PHY specifications defined as follows: — In Clause 18 when the HT STA is operating in a 20 MHz channel width in the 5 GHz band — In Clause 17 and Clause 19 when the HT STA is operating in a 20 MHz channel width in the 2.4 GHz band ]]] Translation: All of 11a/b/g are a proper subset of 11n. 11ac is 5GHz only. I assume it's backwards compatible to 11a but I haven't read the 11ac spec.

nayden 11y ago

Reversing firmware without documentation takes time. Especially when a single developer does it on their spare time as a hobby.

ashitlerferad 11y ago
Does OpenBSD actually write open WiFi firmware?
- antoinealb 11y ago
  No. But they still have to write drivers that will interact with those firmwares.

brynet 11y ago

802.11n is a lot more complicated than its predecessors, OpenBSD has it's own wireless stack and drivers. A lot of 11n hardware was supported in a/b/g modes only.

cmurf 11y ago
I've found the same on Linux with the Broadcom chips that at least Apple users in laptops. Maybe the proprietary driver supports it.

sigzero 11y ago

I imagine wireless is a "secondary" concern for the OpenBSD team given the focus on the server.

stsp 11y ago
Not really. Most OpenBSD developers run OpenBSD on their laptops which of course includes wifi. The real reasons are that 11a is still good enough for many use cases, and that OpenBSD's wireless developer department is seriously understaffed (apply by sending a patch).
- silverforgotapw 11y ago
  No one uses a. It was not a 2.4Ghz radio and not compatible with the b/g/n/ac cards that came after it.
  - matthewmacleod 11y ago
    I don't think this is true - AFAIK most 5Ghz hardware supports 802.11a.
    - SyneRyder 11y ago
      While only anecdata, I've got a 5Ghz router and 802.11a is not an option (but 802.11b is).
      - fulafel 11y ago
        New base stations don't typically have options for 11a-only 5 GHz, but 5 GHz capable 11n clients can still connect to older 5 GHz 11a networks. I imagine there is similar backwards compatibility to the other direction even without an explicit configuration option.
        stsp 11y ago
        Wow, so much doubt. I'd normally link Wikipedia, but this is HN so let's just quote the spec to clear this up once and for all. Legend: PHY: think of this as "wifi radio" HT: "High Throughput" aka 802.11n "Clause 20": HT PHY specification "Clause 19": 802.11g PHY specification "Clause 18": 802.11a PHY specification "Clause 17": 802.11b PHY specification STA: any 802.11 capable device [[[ 20.1.1 Introduction to the HT PHY Clause 20 specifies the PHY entity for a high throughput (HT) orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) system. In addition to the requirements found in Clause 20, an HT STA shall be capable of transmitting and receiving frames that are compliant with the mandatory PHY specifications defined as follows: — In Clause 18 when the HT STA is operating in a 20 MHz channel width in the 5 GHz band — In Clause 17 and Clause 19 when the HT STA is operating in a 20 MHz channel width in the 2.4 GHz band ]]] Translation: All of 11a/b/g are a proper subset of 11n. 11ac is 5GHz only. I assume it's backwards compatible to 11a but I haven't read the 11ac spec.