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Thanks for creating Dropcam - I still love the device even with the Nest "improvements." I also worked at Nest (on the thermostat product) and couldn't echo yo

Thanks for creating Dropcam - I still love the device even with the Nest "improvements." I also worked at Nest (on the thermostat product) and couldn't echo your comments more strongly. Tony Fadell is a terrible manager. There are so many public data points at this point: the perma 6 day work weeks, the "f* being Googly" comment at the all hands, refusing to allow Nest employees to have the Google massage benefits because "they don't deserve it", and now, throwing a great team under the bus to hide his inability to manage. I have another twenty that I can't share because of confidentiality and I'm sure you do as well. The fact that Alphabet/Google hasn't replaced him is a horribly disappointing statement about what they think is most important: profit, not employees, not culture. Or maybe not even profit after your comments. :( Please do write the other story about your acquisition when you can - a lot of people here could learn a lot from it as a cautionary tale.

bitbybite 11y ago
They've made some really neat products. I'm always surprised how many product and business leaders in the world are harsh/aggressive, you just don't hear about them because smaller footprints. It's easy to tear down success and innovation without context of redemptive outcomes/tradeoffs. Turn your frustration into energy and go innovate.
kdamken 11y ago
Holy moly - 6 days a week? I can't fathom having to do that at a salaried job and staying for more than two weeks. Unless they were paying me an obscene amount of money, but even then, I'd probably be on the look out for something better.
- vvanders 11y ago
  Haha, you'd hate the game dev industry then.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    How are there not class actions against that for wage theft?
  - kdamken 11y ago
    Lol I'm always horrified when I read what it's like for them. I feel like almost every other kind of developer is well paid and appreciated, yet for some reason game devs seem to always be overworked, underpaid and underappreciated with no job security. Maybe it's because more people want to work in the game industry? I'd rather have a well paying dev job with reasonable hours, and work on games in my own time.
    - Qworg 11y ago
      Many more people want to work in the game industry. Very few people dream of creating CRUD apps some day. Also, the pipeline and recruiting is set up for it. Places like Full Sail are set up right next door to major studios - you get your training, then you walk into the meat grinder.
      - kdamken 11y ago
        That's sad. I feel like a lot of them would be better off getting a normal, well paying job as a non-gaming dev, then work on their own projects in their free time.
        vvanders 11y ago
        Good news is the industry prepares you pretty well(on the development side) for a career in embedded systems, or high performance compute. But yeah, gamasutra does a survey each year and the career time in gamedev is usually around ~3 years.
revelation 11y ago
I thought they did replace him? Wikipedia has him as leading Google Glass. I guess that is all you need to know about his qualities then.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  Glass was handed to him after the Explorer Edition was shut down. He had basically no involvement with anything Glass related that the public has had their hands on.
awqrre 11y ago
These cloud-only cameras should be free.
- dguaraglia 11y ago
  It's exactly the cloud part that costs money to run. That'd be like saying "this streaming services where you never receive a hard copy of your content should be free".
  - Domenic_S 11y ago
    Ok, but you don't have to buy a Netflix CD and install it and then pay a monthly fee. You have to buy the Dropcam, and then on top of that you have to buy the service (or else your Dropcam is a brick). No thanks. At least Arlo has a free tier.
    - dguaraglia 11y ago
      Actually, your Dropcam/Nestcam will be happy to give you a live feed for free. Also, you get a 3 month trial. In fact, I'd argue that buying a camera that provides "free" service forever is buying into a trap of some sort. There's simply no way to make money running a free service (it's the first law of thermoeconomics: money cannot be generated by providing a service that costs > $0 at a cost point of $0.)
      - Domenic_S 11y ago
        Nest thermostat doesn't have a subscription fee ;) Besides, Arlo's freemium so I don't really get your argument (you get 7 days of recording free, up to 5 cameras; $$ if you want more of either). I like the idea of Dropcam, but $200/camera PLUS a monthly fee I can't swallow. It's an expensive razor with expensive blades. But, I'm just some random schmo and not a millionaire who sold his company to Google, so feel free to disagree!
        dguaraglia 11y ago
mikestew 11y ago
The fact that Alphabet/Google hasn't replaced him is a horribly disappointing statement about what they think is most important: profit, not employees, not culture. Yeah, well, they're probably not doing so hot on the "profit" part, either since while they're all busy having their internal squabbles, they're not innovating AFAICT. No more Nest products for me, because they don't seem to do any better than less expensive options (now that competitors have caught up, which was not a monumental task). The thermostat and camera that I've got are pretty much standalone devices (the camera and thermostat might talk to each other now, I think). From my minimal research, those two devices do not appear that will be a part of a "home automation system" other than talking (poorly) to each other. No HomeKit integration, of course, now that Google has purchased them. Yeah, there's Brillo, but to (put it kindly) Google past performance doesn't have me holding my breath. I expect a poorly-documented, buggy first release and after a few years it'll be usable.
- Shooti 11y ago
  >No HomeKit integration, of course, now that Google has purchased them. Probably completely unrelated since Nest doesn't even support Google's Brillo/Weave. They're going forward with their own "Nest Weave" which despite the name is a completely separate platform/ecosystem from Google's stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if Homekit support is actually on the cards but it's stuck in their super slow release cycle.
  - mikestew 11y ago
    They're going forward with their own "Nest Weave" which despite the name is a completely separate platform/ecosystem from Google's stuff I swear, I don't know what gets into companies sometimes. They do that, they've all but assured that I'll never buy another Nest anything. Brillo? I wouldn't be happy about it (as primarily an Apple user), but I'd understand. And who knows, I'm open to options. But your own special snowflake API? Yeah, screw that, I've been down that road too many times.
gduffy 11y ago
On behalf of the team, thank you very much! There was a lot left to do to make Dropcam the product we all knew it could be in the future. The thermostat was a nice product, and that's part of what's so interesting about the backstory of all of this. I'm sorry you had to go through the pain as well. I will try to write more at some point, and I only hope it helps somehow, even if just for future entrepreneurs.

bitbybite 11y ago

They've made some really neat products. I'm always surprised how many product and business leaders in the world are harsh/aggressive, you just don't hear about them because smaller footprints. It's easy to tear down success and innovation without context of redemptive outcomes/tradeoffs. Turn your frustration into energy and go innovate.

kdamken 11y ago

Holy moly - 6 days a week? I can't fathom having to do that at a salaried job and staying for more than two weeks. Unless they were paying me an obscene amount of money, but even then, I'd probably be on the look out for something better.

vvanders 11y ago
Haha, you'd hate the game dev industry then.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  How are there not class actions against that for wage theft?
- kdamken 11y ago
  Lol I'm always horrified when I read what it's like for them. I feel like almost every other kind of developer is well paid and appreciated, yet for some reason game devs seem to always be overworked, underpaid and underappreciated with no job security. Maybe it's because more people want to work in the game industry? I'd rather have a well paying dev job with reasonable hours, and work on games in my own time.
  - Qworg 11y ago
    Many more people want to work in the game industry. Very few people dream of creating CRUD apps some day. Also, the pipeline and recruiting is set up for it. Places like Full Sail are set up right next door to major studios - you get your training, then you walk into the meat grinder.
    - kdamken 11y ago
      That's sad. I feel like a lot of them would be better off getting a normal, well paying job as a non-gaming dev, then work on their own projects in their free time.
      - vvanders 11y ago
        Good news is the industry prepares you pretty well(on the development side) for a career in embedded systems, or high performance compute. But yeah, gamasutra does a survey each year and the career time in gamedev is usually around ~3 years.

revelation 11y ago

I thought they did replace him? Wikipedia has him as leading Google Glass. I guess that is all you need to know about his qualities then.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
Glass was handed to him after the Explorer Edition was shut down. He had basically no involvement with anything Glass related that the public has had their hands on.

awqrre 11y ago

These cloud-only cameras should be free.

dguaraglia 11y ago
It's exactly the cloud part that costs money to run. That'd be like saying "this streaming services where you never receive a hard copy of your content should be free".
- Domenic_S 11y ago
  Ok, but you don't have to buy a Netflix CD and install it and then pay a monthly fee. You have to buy the Dropcam, and then on top of that you have to buy the service (or else your Dropcam is a brick). No thanks. At least Arlo has a free tier.
  - dguaraglia 11y ago
    Actually, your Dropcam/Nestcam will be happy to give you a live feed for free. Also, you get a 3 month trial. In fact, I'd argue that buying a camera that provides "free" service forever is buying into a trap of some sort. There's simply no way to make money running a free service (it's the first law of thermoeconomics: money cannot be generated by providing a service that costs > $0 at a cost point of $0.)
    - Domenic_S 11y ago
      Nest thermostat doesn't have a subscription fee ;) Besides, Arlo's freemium so I don't really get your argument (you get 7 days of recording free, up to 5 cameras; $$ if you want more of either). I like the idea of Dropcam, but $200/camera PLUS a monthly fee I can't swallow. It's an expensive razor with expensive blades. But, I'm just some random schmo and not a millionaire who sold his company to Google, so feel free to disagree!
      - dguaraglia 11y ago

mikestew 11y ago

The fact that Alphabet/Google hasn't replaced him is a horribly disappointing statement about what they think is most important: profit, not employees, not culture. Yeah, well, they're probably not doing so hot on the "profit" part, either since while they're all busy having their internal squabbles, they're not innovating AFAICT. No more Nest products for me, because they don't seem to do any better than less expensive options (now that competitors have caught up, which was not a monumental task). The thermostat and camera that I've got are pretty much standalone devices (the camera and thermostat might talk to each other now, I think). From my minimal research, those two devices do not appear that will be a part of a "home automation system" other than talking (poorly) to each other. No HomeKit integration, of course, now that Google has purchased them. Yeah, there's Brillo, but to (put it kindly) Google past performance doesn't have me holding my breath. I expect a poorly-documented, buggy first release and after a few years it'll be usable.

Shooti 11y ago
>No HomeKit integration, of course, now that Google has purchased them. Probably completely unrelated since Nest doesn't even support Google's Brillo/Weave. They're going forward with their own "Nest Weave" which despite the name is a completely separate platform/ecosystem from Google's stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if Homekit support is actually on the cards but it's stuck in their super slow release cycle.
- mikestew 11y ago
  They're going forward with their own "Nest Weave" which despite the name is a completely separate platform/ecosystem from Google's stuff I swear, I don't know what gets into companies sometimes. They do that, they've all but assured that I'll never buy another Nest anything. Brillo? I wouldn't be happy about it (as primarily an Apple user), but I'd understand. And who knows, I'm open to options. But your own special snowflake API? Yeah, screw that, I've been down that road too many times.

gduffy 11y ago

On behalf of the team, thank you very much! There was a lot left to do to make Dropcam the product we all knew it could be in the future. The thermostat was a nice product, and that's part of what's so interesting about the backstory of all of this. I'm sorry you had to go through the pain as well. I will try to write more at some point, and I only hope it helps somehow, even if just for future entrepreneurs.