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The key unanswered question, and for me the fundamental reason I switched from using Bootstrap to Foundation at work, is how designer friendly the two are. Boo

by cmdkeen 11y ago

The key unanswered question, and for me the fundamental reason I switched from using Bootstrap to Foundation at work, is how designer friendly the two are. Bootstrap is fantastic when you want a site that looks like Bootstrap, these tend to be put together by developers. Foundation (at least was) much less opinionated and therefore when you're given a PSD by a designer much easier to implement. Have things improved on that front? Is it easy to override Bootstrap's defaults?

andybak 11y ago
Is it really that hard? The templates on http://wrapbootstrap.com/ http://wrapbootstrap.com/ are fairly varied and don't tend to be obviously bootstrappy.
- danvoell 11y ago
  I agree with Andy here. I am finding more and more instances of bootstrap in the wild where I need to double check the source code to figure out whether or not it is Bootstrap. Most instances are obviously bootstrap but mostly because the developer doesn't have a designer involved and doesn't need one which is the beauty of it.
- ethanbond 11y ago
  But grabbing a template from a website isn't "working with a designer." Foundation still blows Bootstrap away in terms of building a truly bespoke site on top of their components.
  - nilliams 11y ago
    Can you explain or give any examples where this is the case? At my work we build totally bespoke designs with Bootstrap and are having a good experience.
    - ethanbond 11y ago
      I personally find that if I'm spending time overriding a framework's defaults for literally every single thing I do, that it's a badly designed framework. Maybe there's some sort of Bootstrap "reset.css" type of thing now, but I couldn't handle it back when I tried Bootstrap.
      - nilliams 11y ago
        In Bootstrap 3 you shouldn't have to override anything. I think I've found one exception which is the toggle button in the navbar element that seems to have some annoying defaults I have to override every time, but that's it. (If your experience was with Bootstrap 2, then that explains your feelings, but that situation was pretty categorically fixed with BS3).
woah 11y ago
Were you using the variables file? I found Bootstrap very easy to customize.
ethanbond 11y ago
Yeah I cringed hard when the author said Bootstrap wins the design side of things. Yeah, sure, a Bootstrap site that looks like Bootstrap looks better than a Foundation site that looks like Foundation. That's because Bootstrap piles on a whole load of stuff that are really just annoyances for anyone who wants to make their site NOT look like it came off the same assembly line as millions of others. Bootstrap has moved towards Foundation's more barebones method, but still not there.
emidln 11y ago
Ancedotal evidence: My company recently switched https://m.curiosity.com https://m.curiosity.com to Bootstrap from custom CSS, and spec'd the design almost entirely by PSDs. I don't think the site looks particularly Bootstrappy nor did it seem especially challenging to customize.
Kiro 11y ago
What are you using from Foundation? I'm thinking you don't need something that heavy at all if you have your own designer.

by cmdkeen 11y ago

andybak 11y ago

Is it really that hard? The templates on http://wrapbootstrap.com/ http://wrapbootstrap.com/ are fairly varied and don't tend to be obviously bootstrappy.

danvoell 11y ago
I agree with Andy here. I am finding more and more instances of bootstrap in the wild where I need to double check the source code to figure out whether or not it is Bootstrap. Most instances are obviously bootstrap but mostly because the developer doesn't have a designer involved and doesn't need one which is the beauty of it.
ethanbond 11y ago
But grabbing a template from a website isn't "working with a designer." Foundation still blows Bootstrap away in terms of building a truly bespoke site on top of their components.
- nilliams 11y ago
  Can you explain or give any examples where this is the case? At my work we build totally bespoke designs with Bootstrap and are having a good experience.
  - ethanbond 11y ago
    I personally find that if I'm spending time overriding a framework's defaults for literally every single thing I do, that it's a badly designed framework. Maybe there's some sort of Bootstrap "reset.css" type of thing now, but I couldn't handle it back when I tried Bootstrap.
    - nilliams 11y ago
      In Bootstrap 3 you shouldn't have to override anything. I think I've found one exception which is the toggle button in the navbar element that seems to have some annoying defaults I have to override every time, but that's it. (If your experience was with Bootstrap 2, then that explains your feelings, but that situation was pretty categorically fixed with BS3).

woah 11y ago

Were you using the variables file? I found Bootstrap very easy to customize.

ethanbond 11y ago

Yeah I cringed hard when the author said Bootstrap wins the design side of things. Yeah, sure, a Bootstrap site that looks like Bootstrap looks better than a Foundation site that looks like Foundation. That's because Bootstrap piles on a whole load of stuff that are really just annoyances for anyone who wants to make their site NOT look like it came off the same assembly line as millions of others. Bootstrap has moved towards Foundation's more barebones method, but still not there.

emidln 11y ago

Ancedotal evidence: My company recently switched https://m.curiosity.com https://m.curiosity.com to Bootstrap from custom CSS, and spec'd the design almost entirely by PSDs. I don't think the site looks particularly Bootstrappy nor did it seem especially challenging to customize.

Kiro 11y ago

What are you using from Foundation? I'm thinking you don't need something that heavy at all if you have your own designer.