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Complete and pure nonsense.I don't have time to respond for all of that(you can read my comment in bottom). But FWIW US didn't start intervene in middle East p

by 0xFFC 11y ago

Complete and pure nonsense.I don't have time to respond for all of that(you can read my comment in bottom). But FWIW US didn't start intervene in middle East policy in 2001. They have half century of destroying in any imaginable way. BTW the way you are dividing ethics show you don't have clue what you are taking about.for example Kurds vs Alawites? Really ? These are allies most of the time. And another thing you completely missed is the idea of West intervention in middle East weakened liberal politician position in middle East.by intervening you are basically proving yes.liberals are our puppets. And I don't know you have read or watched any documentary (beside midia establishment fantasies).fightig against West and taking "revenge of our people" is best propaganda for Isis in recruitment process. (By people they refer to who have died in iraq, afghanistan invasion, or when US did support dictators which some of them brutally tortured people/journalist) Welcome to real world , and turn off your CNN

cm2187 11y ago
Blaming the West for all their problems has become a kind of a reflex in the middle east, but the west didn't create this ethnic hatred, and the west didn't create islamism (if a finger had to be pointed at anyone it should rather be Saudi Arabia, though it's a bit like blaming Germany for the Gulag and the Cultural Revolution because Marx was German).
- 0xFFC 11y ago
  Actually they did.no matter how much you deny it. But the truth is they did , as people like Noam Chomsky tries to tell truth.but people in western society are mind washed. USA and West political intervention in middle East created mojaheddin at first place dude.because they thought they need these guys against Soviet.no one in that time cared about people of middle east, when they was creating these monsters.do you know any history? Mujahedeen was small group of people in caves.when USA made them hero's. You can look at times when people in middle East lived together peacefully for hundreds of years.Jew , Christian, Muslims and go on. And remember this was time when slavery and lynching was cool thing to do in your society. P.s. I am not saying middle Eastern people are better or worse. This is complete nonsense. People are homo-seipans and all of us are animals. There is no bad or good. But they will become bad when you make their lives miserable. When there is no education.
  - sdoering 11y ago
    Maybe you are right. Maybe not. Stating something as "truth" will not make it so in my mind. Show me the sources, show me the arguments. Show everybody that you know why you state it as truth. Only because Chomsky says so is like saying: Jesus said so. I'd like to follow the logical arguments myself. btw.: I do think, that the western interventions, the capitalistic land-grabbing, the weapons trade, the support for partisan groups, because of mutual political enemies and so on are (at least) some of the reasons this powder keg keeps exploding. Non the less are the underlying ethnicities, animosities that go back generations and different believe systems (like sunnites and shiites) at least as much to blame. Only doing finger pointing in the direction of the big bad wolf called US of A is too easy, too simplistic (imho) and will not lead to a better understanding. I do not believe in such a simplistic logic when it comes to world politics. Most of the time there is a multitude of influencing factors at play. These have o be understood like in a multiple regression analysis (just a metaphor).
    - 0xFFC 11y ago
      Actually your argument (about Chomsky) is seriously ridiculous. When I reference a person like Chomsky or any other scientist (which is well respected scientist) I am not referencing to his character.I am referring to material and position which he takes (for example in his books, which is based on logical inferring, or factual evidence) I don't think any good will come out of this discussion because you keep nitpicking.But for further information you can read Chomsky's,Finkelstein's and serius scientifics book. >I do not believe in such a simplistic logic when it comes to world politics. Most of the time there is a multitude of influencing factors at play. These have o be understood like in a multiple regression analysis (just a metaphor). I 100% agree with this part.but I don't agree with make matters complicated. This is fact and simple. USA did support Mujahedin for many years. And go on. careful I am not saying USA is responsible for all things in middle East.but they are major part in this fucking mess they created. And after they left middle East we can start to talk (without any military intervention from outside) and push for reform in middle east.And I would personally beg/appreciate for providing cultural material.( I don't know. Internet. TV shows. Thing like this , which shows people how people live in West)
- ingsoc79 11y ago
  > And remember this was time when slavery and lynching was cool thing to do in your society. ...and is all the rage in the Middle East today.
  - 0xFFC 11y ago
    How about killing Australian native people like kangaroo? Do know history? When they arrived to the land which we call today Australia they killed native people like kangaroo. It is a little bit disgusting, the same people who created this fuckig mess, the same people who supported brutal dictators, the same people who created Mujahedeen at first place , now came and claims , "Oops , we didn't mean to create this mess.maybe some thing wrong in your people's gene?" No people are people.They do bad thing when there is no education , when there is no economy.when there is no future. When you humilate their existence. Do you wanna see bad thing? Take trip, and go to one of trumps rally , when they literally yell at black people: " go to your fucking continent, what the fuck are you doing in my country? "
- RobertoG 11y ago
  "the west didn't create this ethnic hatred" Look at the border between France and Spain, there are big mountains there. Now look at the border between Egypt and Libya, a straight line in the middle of nowhere. How is that possible? "if a finger had to be pointed at anyone it should rather be Saudi Arabia," Who is the best ally and supported of the Saudi royalty? One of the more backwards regimes in the world. What about Iraq? What about Iran? from wikipedia: "In 1951, Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected as the prime minister. He became enormously popular in Iran, after he nationalized Iran's petroleum industry and oil reserves. He was deposed in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, an Anglo-American covert operation that marked the first time the US had overthrown a foreign government during the Cold War" Not accepting how the west have messed in the area has become a kind of a reflex.
- tim333 11y ago
  Saudi Arabia spends billions promoting Wahhabism abroad so it's a bit more than blaming Germany for Marx because he was born there.
  - cm2187 11y ago
    Yes but my point is that I hold responsible for their actions the people who commit these actions more than those who inspired these actions.
    - smokeyj 11y ago
      Systemic problems require root cause analysis. It's like firing a dev who introduced a bug. Sure you can fire him, but you haven't fixed the problem. Fix the build.
- return0 11y ago
  While the US is often thought to be an easy scapegoat, there is a long history of bad strategic interventions that go back to a century. It's not some remote relationship - the very recent US interventions in the region have brought disastrous results, in both syria and libya, opening roads to the free reign of radical islamists. What's worse, the US public now is backing for their next election the war-hungry person that backed these kinds of interventions (Hillary) and an ignorant whose response to crisis is to hatred against the people deposed by those interventions.
sdoering 11y ago
Why reply at all, if you do not have the time? This is just no civilized behavior to throw unsubstantiated critique and see what sticks. And in the end you are the one looking bad and not having reached any goal. If you can't win with arguments, but try to do it with statements and ad hominem attacks you will probably never convince anyone here.
- 0xFFC 11y ago
  Your point are completely valid. But I refered to a comment in bottom of the page.T he reason I didn't want to explain further is because it is same Western media propaganda, which is disgusting.

by 0xFFC 11y ago

cm2187 11y ago

Blaming the West for all their problems has become a kind of a reflex in the middle east, but the west didn't create this ethnic hatred, and the west didn't create islamism (if a finger had to be pointed at anyone it should rather be Saudi Arabia, though it's a bit like blaming Germany for the Gulag and the Cultural Revolution because Marx was German).

0xFFC 11y ago
Actually they did.no matter how much you deny it. But the truth is they did , as people like Noam Chomsky tries to tell truth.but people in western society are mind washed. USA and West political intervention in middle East created mojaheddin at first place dude.because they thought they need these guys against Soviet.no one in that time cared about people of middle east, when they was creating these monsters.do you know any history? Mujahedeen was small group of people in caves.when USA made them hero's. You can look at times when people in middle East lived together peacefully for hundreds of years.Jew , Christian, Muslims and go on. And remember this was time when slavery and lynching was cool thing to do in your society. P.s. I am not saying middle Eastern people are better or worse. This is complete nonsense. People are homo-seipans and all of us are animals. There is no bad or good. But they will become bad when you make their lives miserable. When there is no education.
- sdoering 11y ago
  Maybe you are right. Maybe not. Stating something as "truth" will not make it so in my mind. Show me the sources, show me the arguments. Show everybody that you know why you state it as truth. Only because Chomsky says so is like saying: Jesus said so. I'd like to follow the logical arguments myself. btw.: I do think, that the western interventions, the capitalistic land-grabbing, the weapons trade, the support for partisan groups, because of mutual political enemies and so on are (at least) some of the reasons this powder keg keeps exploding. Non the less are the underlying ethnicities, animosities that go back generations and different believe systems (like sunnites and shiites) at least as much to blame. Only doing finger pointing in the direction of the big bad wolf called US of A is too easy, too simplistic (imho) and will not lead to a better understanding. I do not believe in such a simplistic logic when it comes to world politics. Most of the time there is a multitude of influencing factors at play. These have o be understood like in a multiple regression analysis (just a metaphor).
  - 0xFFC 11y ago
    Actually your argument (about Chomsky) is seriously ridiculous. When I reference a person like Chomsky or any other scientist (which is well respected scientist) I am not referencing to his character.I am referring to material and position which he takes (for example in his books, which is based on logical inferring, or factual evidence) I don't think any good will come out of this discussion because you keep nitpicking.But for further information you can read Chomsky's,Finkelstein's and serius scientifics book. >I do not believe in such a simplistic logic when it comes to world politics. Most of the time there is a multitude of influencing factors at play. These have o be understood like in a multiple regression analysis (just a metaphor). I 100% agree with this part.but I don't agree with make matters complicated. This is fact and simple. USA did support Mujahedin for many years. And go on. careful I am not saying USA is responsible for all things in middle East.but they are major part in this fucking mess they created. And after they left middle East we can start to talk (without any military intervention from outside) and push for reform in middle east.And I would personally beg/appreciate for providing cultural material.( I don't know. Internet. TV shows. Thing like this , which shows people how people live in West)
ingsoc79 11y ago
> And remember this was time when slavery and lynching was cool thing to do in your society. ...and is all the rage in the Middle East today.
- 0xFFC 11y ago
  How about killing Australian native people like kangaroo? Do know history? When they arrived to the land which we call today Australia they killed native people like kangaroo. It is a little bit disgusting, the same people who created this fuckig mess, the same people who supported brutal dictators, the same people who created Mujahedeen at first place , now came and claims , "Oops , we didn't mean to create this mess.maybe some thing wrong in your people's gene?" No people are people.They do bad thing when there is no education , when there is no economy.when there is no future. When you humilate their existence. Do you wanna see bad thing? Take trip, and go to one of trumps rally , when they literally yell at black people: " go to your fucking continent, what the fuck are you doing in my country? "
RobertoG 11y ago
"the west didn't create this ethnic hatred" Look at the border between France and Spain, there are big mountains there. Now look at the border between Egypt and Libya, a straight line in the middle of nowhere. How is that possible? "if a finger had to be pointed at anyone it should rather be Saudi Arabia," Who is the best ally and supported of the Saudi royalty? One of the more backwards regimes in the world. What about Iraq? What about Iran? from wikipedia: "In 1951, Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected as the prime minister. He became enormously popular in Iran, after he nationalized Iran's petroleum industry and oil reserves. He was deposed in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, an Anglo-American covert operation that marked the first time the US had overthrown a foreign government during the Cold War" Not accepting how the west have messed in the area has become a kind of a reflex.
tim333 11y ago
Saudi Arabia spends billions promoting Wahhabism abroad so it's a bit more than blaming Germany for Marx because he was born there.
- cm2187 11y ago
  Yes but my point is that I hold responsible for their actions the people who commit these actions more than those who inspired these actions.
  - smokeyj 11y ago
    Systemic problems require root cause analysis. It's like firing a dev who introduced a bug. Sure you can fire him, but you haven't fixed the problem. Fix the build.
return0 11y ago
While the US is often thought to be an easy scapegoat, there is a long history of bad strategic interventions that go back to a century. It's not some remote relationship - the very recent US interventions in the region have brought disastrous results, in both syria and libya, opening roads to the free reign of radical islamists. What's worse, the US public now is backing for their next election the war-hungry person that backed these kinds of interventions (Hillary) and an ignorant whose response to crisis is to hatred against the people deposed by those interventions.

sdoering 11y ago

Why reply at all, if you do not have the time? This is just no civilized behavior to throw unsubstantiated critique and see what sticks. And in the end you are the one looking bad and not having reached any goal. If you can't win with arguments, but try to do it with statements and ad hominem attacks you will probably never convince anyone here.

0xFFC 11y ago
Your point are completely valid. But I refered to a comment in bottom of the page.T he reason I didn't want to explain further is because it is same Western media propaganda, which is disgusting.