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Swaths of Waterloo and UofT grads leave Canada for better paying work in the USA. There is no lack of talent coming out of Canadian Universities. If they can't

Swaths of Waterloo and UofT grads leave Canada for better paying work in the USA. There is no lack of talent coming out of Canadian Universities. If they can't keep their own domestic talent, how do they figure they can attrack "top foreign talent"? It seems like a false flag operation to find cheaper labour.

niuzeta 11y ago
Agreed. You try to stay in Canada for love of the country(no joke. I love it here) or just not wanting to leave familiar scene. But with insane housing market and (relatively)low wage, the temptation is strong.
- rgoldade 11y ago
  Absolutely. I would love to move back to Vancouver (born+raised) but it's so expensive vs. the salary options. To be fair though, while the tech jobs in Kitchener\Waterloo pay less than SF, the cost of living is very affordable.
- andy9775 11y ago
  Agreed. Think of Texas salaries vs cost of living and compare that to Toronto. I have a friend that went back to school just so that he can get a TN visa and leave for the US
- 3pt14159 11y ago
  Housing isn't that expensive outside of Vancouver. You can buy a one bedroom condo a 2 min walk from the CN Tower for $230k to $260k USD / 300k to $350k CAD, and salaries here are lower than SF or NYC, but not by that much. Vancouver, yes, pays very poorly and has unreasonable housing prices, but that is far from all of Canada.
  - hackerboos 11y ago
    The housing market in Toronto is skewed. Yes apartment prices can be considered reasonable but actual houses are approaching the same levels as Vancouver. Also those $250k apartments usually have $500/month maintenance fees attached. Not all, but some.
    - 3pt14159 11y ago
      I feel like I say this all the time, but... Real houses should be expensive in a city. The whole point of a city is densification. I don't want to live around a bunch of (usually detached) houses as far as the eye can see. I want to live where everything is happening. If you want a real house with an nice mostly quiet neighbourhood with a Canadian Tire and a Boston Pizza live in Georgetown and take the Go Train.
  - pxue 11y ago
    <300k gets you 500sqft bachelor pad. Rent is about 1500$ for bachelor, goes up to 2k for 1bed+den. I think the 30 rent rule is a great benchmark for living affordability, renting a 1bd+den is around 1700$ for downtown in a decent building.. with utility, internet etc .. make that 1800$.. ((1700+100)*12)/0.3 = 72k a year. If you're making that dt toronto, you're doing okay.
markeroon 11y ago
Came here to say the same thing, it's such a joke. We lose huge amounts of talent to the US because of the joke that is Canadian tech salaries.
BillyParadise 11y ago
Just be glad Canada doesn't tax worldwide income for nonresidents like the US does. If they did, your cushy SV job would be much less attractive. Though the lack of snow might compensate.
- x5n1 11y ago
  It would not, the US has tax treaties with countries like Canada so you don't get double-taxed. The only case in which you get double taxed is if the US has no treaty with the country. The US is one of the few countries which does this and I guess it's mostly because American contractors have been enabled by the US government to do these sorts of jobs, like for instance in the Middle East, and the government feels that this warrants a cut.
  - amscanne 11y ago
    > It would not, the US has tax treaties with countries like Canada so you don't get double-taxed. The only case in which you get double taxed is if the US has no treaty with the country. This is only true for federal taxes. States aren't required to follow federal tax treaties. So California, for example, doesn't recognize any tax treaty with Canada. There are lots of ways you can wind up getting taxed twice.
    - x5n1 11y ago
      Not sure how you would get double taxed this way. You only end up paying Federal tax if you are not in the country. Not State tax as you don't belong to any State.
      - amscanne 11y ago
        Different countries have different rules for taxation. It's perfectly possible to be considered a resident (or deemed resident) in two places concurrently. This is frequently the case for people who split their time between multiple countries. I know many people who have been in this position.
- 11y ago
personjerry 11y ago
What we need is a Silicon Valley tier company in Waterloo again (read: not Blackberry or Opentext).
sgift 11y ago
Happens all the time here in Germany. Every year one gets at least three to four of these "we do not have enough talent, we need to hire foreign talent, make it easier" initiatives while at the same time people with the required education leave the country in droves. It was funny for a time, now it is just sad.

niuzeta 11y ago

Agreed. You try to stay in Canada for love of the country(no joke. I love it here) or just not wanting to leave familiar scene. But with insane housing market and (relatively)low wage, the temptation is strong.

rgoldade 11y ago
Absolutely. I would love to move back to Vancouver (born+raised) but it's so expensive vs. the salary options. To be fair though, while the tech jobs in Kitchener\Waterloo pay less than SF, the cost of living is very affordable.
andy9775 11y ago
Agreed. Think of Texas salaries vs cost of living and compare that to Toronto. I have a friend that went back to school just so that he can get a TN visa and leave for the US
3pt14159 11y ago
Housing isn't that expensive outside of Vancouver. You can buy a one bedroom condo a 2 min walk from the CN Tower for $230k to $260k USD / 300k to $350k CAD, and salaries here are lower than SF or NYC, but not by that much. Vancouver, yes, pays very poorly and has unreasonable housing prices, but that is far from all of Canada.
- hackerboos 11y ago
  The housing market in Toronto is skewed. Yes apartment prices can be considered reasonable but actual houses are approaching the same levels as Vancouver. Also those $250k apartments usually have $500/month maintenance fees attached. Not all, but some.
  - 3pt14159 11y ago
    I feel like I say this all the time, but... Real houses should be expensive in a city. The whole point of a city is densification. I don't want to live around a bunch of (usually detached) houses as far as the eye can see. I want to live where everything is happening. If you want a real house with an nice mostly quiet neighbourhood with a Canadian Tire and a Boston Pizza live in Georgetown and take the Go Train.
- pxue 11y ago
  <300k gets you 500sqft bachelor pad. Rent is about 1500$ for bachelor, goes up to 2k for 1bed+den. I think the 30 rent rule is a great benchmark for living affordability, renting a 1bd+den is around 1700$ for downtown in a decent building.. with utility, internet etc .. make that 1800$.. ((1700+100)*12)/0.3 = 72k a year. If you're making that dt toronto, you're doing okay.

markeroon 11y ago

Came here to say the same thing, it's such a joke. We lose huge amounts of talent to the US because of the joke that is Canadian tech salaries.

BillyParadise 11y ago

Just be glad Canada doesn't tax worldwide income for nonresidents like the US does. If they did, your cushy SV job would be much less attractive. Though the lack of snow might compensate.

x5n1 11y ago
It would not, the US has tax treaties with countries like Canada so you don't get double-taxed. The only case in which you get double taxed is if the US has no treaty with the country. The US is one of the few countries which does this and I guess it's mostly because American contractors have been enabled by the US government to do these sorts of jobs, like for instance in the Middle East, and the government feels that this warrants a cut.
- amscanne 11y ago
  > It would not, the US has tax treaties with countries like Canada so you don't get double-taxed. The only case in which you get double taxed is if the US has no treaty with the country. This is only true for federal taxes. States aren't required to follow federal tax treaties. So California, for example, doesn't recognize any tax treaty with Canada. There are lots of ways you can wind up getting taxed twice.
  - x5n1 11y ago
    Not sure how you would get double taxed this way. You only end up paying Federal tax if you are not in the country. Not State tax as you don't belong to any State.
    - amscanne 11y ago
      Different countries have different rules for taxation. It's perfectly possible to be considered a resident (or deemed resident) in two places concurrently. This is frequently the case for people who split their time between multiple countries. I know many people who have been in this position.
11y ago

personjerry 11y ago

What we need is a Silicon Valley tier company in Waterloo again (read: not Blackberry or Opentext).

sgift 11y ago

Happens all the time here in Germany. Every year one gets at least three to four of these "we do not have enough talent, we need to hire foreign talent, make it easier" initiatives while at the same time people with the required education leave the country in droves. It was funny for a time, now it is just sad.