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The biggest issue I take with the article is a classic chicken and egg problem. The article takes the stance that your depression is there because of your life

by TenOhms 11y ago

The biggest issue I take with the article is a classic chicken and egg problem. The article takes the stance that your depression is there because of your life choices and some factors that aren't in your control. I'm of the very strong opinion that the exact opposite is true.

blisse 11y ago
What really is the exact opposite here? That depression has nothing to do with your environment and only to do with your body?
- ars 11y ago
  > That depression has nothing to do with your environment and only to do with your body? Yes. Exactly. And until you experience such a thing for yourself, or interact with someone like that you will 100% never believe it to be possible. Yet it is.
  - intenex 11y ago
    Nope! I was chronically suicidal and depressed from 8th grade all the way through my first semester of college at Harvard. Someone jumped off a building halfway through that first semester, and ever after, I couldn't stop thinking about killing myself. Knew I'd unequivocally off myself if I stuck around, so it finally provided the impetus for me to drop out, travel around the world, get a Thiel Fellowship, and now be surrounded by the most amazing group of friends, family, and coworkers, and to be working on something I truly find meaningful. Haven't been depressed or suicidal in the slightest since I came out here to SF and started living an autonomous life on my own trajectory. Was 100% circumstantial and situational for me, took zero drugs and professional therapy didn't do anything. Changing my life circumstances did everything.
    - ars 11y ago
      So for you it was not like that. Did you think I meant it was only the way I said? I meant that for some people it has zero to do with environment, not that it was like that for everyone. Be glad it was so easy to fix for you, not everyone is so lucky.
  - jjbiotech 11y ago
    Yeah, you're incorrect on this one. You as a human aren't somehow totally disconnected from your environment. The environment you live in, is a part of yourself, the two can't be separated. You have more foreign bacteria living in your body than human cells. "life flows on within you and without you".
    - ars 11y ago
      > Yeah, you're incorrect on this one No I am not. And like I said, till it happens to you, or you are with someone like that, you will never believe it. I certainly never did. For some people it's environmental - for other? They are depressed for no reason whatsoever. The rest of what you wrote is just empty phrases and has zero to do with this subject.
      - rifung 11y ago
        > And like I said, till it happens to you, or you are with someone like that, you will never believe it. Just because you have experienced it before does not mean that you understand the causes of depression any more than anyone else. After all, you don't assume that people who have cancer have a better understanding of what causes cancer (all else being equal). As a society we still don't really understand much about depression. You could be right or wrong, but how would you even know? Your case could be environmental without you knowing or understanding it. On the other hand you could also be correct that it's something else entirely. Without more studies, we just don't know. I would believe that depression is not necessarily a disease and instead a group of symptoms. That's not to say that you don't have a disorder, but that I think our idea that all cases of depression are the same is incorrect. This would explain why some cases of depression are environmental whereas others may not be; they could actually be different diseases that both cause these symptoms. As someone who is bipolar, depressive episodes are extremely similar to depression. In fact, about 1/5 cases of bipolar are initially misdiagnosed as depression, reportedly. As far as I know though, we aren't actually sure if they were misdiagnosed or depression developed into bipolar. Indeed some studies have shown there is a link between bipolar, schizophrenia, and depression. See here: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2013/new-data-reveal-extent-of-genetic-overlap-between-major-mental-disorders.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2013/new-data-reve... I don't think it's fair for others to say you are incorrect but it's also premature to say you are correct too. I hope that we will uncover the truth sometime in our lifetimes but it seems we are still pretty far away from understanding psychological disorders.

by TenOhms 11y ago

blisse 11y ago

What really is the exact opposite here? That depression has nothing to do with your environment and only to do with your body?

ars 11y ago
> That depression has nothing to do with your environment and only to do with your body? Yes. Exactly. And until you experience such a thing for yourself, or interact with someone like that you will 100% never believe it to be possible. Yet it is.
- intenex 11y ago
  Nope! I was chronically suicidal and depressed from 8th grade all the way through my first semester of college at Harvard. Someone jumped off a building halfway through that first semester, and ever after, I couldn't stop thinking about killing myself. Knew I'd unequivocally off myself if I stuck around, so it finally provided the impetus for me to drop out, travel around the world, get a Thiel Fellowship, and now be surrounded by the most amazing group of friends, family, and coworkers, and to be working on something I truly find meaningful. Haven't been depressed or suicidal in the slightest since I came out here to SF and started living an autonomous life on my own trajectory. Was 100% circumstantial and situational for me, took zero drugs and professional therapy didn't do anything. Changing my life circumstances did everything.
  - ars 11y ago
    So for you it was not like that. Did you think I meant it was only the way I said? I meant that for some people it has zero to do with environment, not that it was like that for everyone. Be glad it was so easy to fix for you, not everyone is so lucky.
- jjbiotech 11y ago
  Yeah, you're incorrect on this one. You as a human aren't somehow totally disconnected from your environment. The environment you live in, is a part of yourself, the two can't be separated. You have more foreign bacteria living in your body than human cells. "life flows on within you and without you".
  - ars 11y ago
    > Yeah, you're incorrect on this one No I am not. And like I said, till it happens to you, or you are with someone like that, you will never believe it. I certainly never did. For some people it's environmental - for other? They are depressed for no reason whatsoever. The rest of what you wrote is just empty phrases and has zero to do with this subject.
    - rifung 11y ago
      > And like I said, till it happens to you, or you are with someone like that, you will never believe it. Just because you have experienced it before does not mean that you understand the causes of depression any more than anyone else. After all, you don't assume that people who have cancer have a better understanding of what causes cancer (all else being equal). As a society we still don't really understand much about depression. You could be right or wrong, but how would you even know? Your case could be environmental without you knowing or understanding it. On the other hand you could also be correct that it's something else entirely. Without more studies, we just don't know. I would believe that depression is not necessarily a disease and instead a group of symptoms. That's not to say that you don't have a disorder, but that I think our idea that all cases of depression are the same is incorrect. This would explain why some cases of depression are environmental whereas others may not be; they could actually be different diseases that both cause these symptoms. As someone who is bipolar, depressive episodes are extremely similar to depression. In fact, about 1/5 cases of bipolar are initially misdiagnosed as depression, reportedly. As far as I know though, we aren't actually sure if they were misdiagnosed or depression developed into bipolar. Indeed some studies have shown there is a link between bipolar, schizophrenia, and depression. See here: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2013/new-data-reveal-extent-of-genetic-overlap-between-major-mental-disorders.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2013/new-data-reve... I don't think it's fair for others to say you are incorrect but it's also premature to say you are correct too. I hope that we will uncover the truth sometime in our lifetimes but it seems we are still pretty far away from understanding psychological disorders.