4 ms·

The way I got out of those sorts of issues was by noticing that the medical system is inadequate. It is geared towards hiding symptoms with drugs - to get peopl

The way I got out of those sorts of issues was by noticing that the medical system is inadequate. It is geared towards hiding symptoms with drugs - to get people back into work, even if those people are a mess inside. It's all down to personal responsibility. You have to find the drive inside to constantly push. To forget the victim mentality that society encourages. To fix one problem at a time. To fight the hellish mode that your mind has enabled.

pessimizer 11y ago
I get how authoritarian pill pushers turn people into libertarian bootstrap people, but just because your depression isn't chemical doesn't mean it's your fault, or that there's anything that you can ultimately do about it by yourself. My problem with the pills is that they don't work, because they're targeted at a made-up disease. That the disease that current practice has lumped people into is made up doesn't mean that people are not suffering, they are, and doesn't mean that they don't need help; we do. Talking to people, making sure that they're healthy, connected, secure, and that they feel like they can express themselves is more expensive than drugging them and/or warehousing them, so I don't think that avoiding the depression diagnosis should reduce public spending or concern with the same sufferers, but raise it. I also assume that when the people who are now lumped together in depression diagnoses are dealt with with more precise approaches, there will always be places among those approaches where drugging and warehousing will be the best option. Treating sadness with drugs is like how we try to cure poverty with teachers.
- jolux 11y ago
  It's never talking to people _or_ drugging them though. Since when do psychiatrists send you off with a prescription for Prozac and then never see you again? Answer: they don't. Major depression is treated with drugs and therapy. And it's the combination of both that helps. Rarely if ever are patients given drugs so the psychiatrist can avoid giving them therapy.
  - bbarn 11y ago
    Yes they absolutely do. Your average Psychiatrist books in 10-15 minute blocks on demand only, and focuses entirely on what drug you need while you're in the office. It's the patient's responsibility (and if they are lucky, a good psychologist in tandem) to follow up on their med treatment.
  - 0xcde4c3db 11y ago
    > And it's the combination of both that helps. I think that's overstating it. The chances of recovery are better on average with the combination, but I don't think anyone has really teased out the extent to which this is additive or synergistic on an individual level versus simply having better odds by betting on two lines instead of one.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
> It's all down to personal responsibility. You have to find the drive inside to constantly push. To forget the victim mentality that society encourages. To fix one problem at a time. To fight the hellish mode that your mind has enabled. This is what doesn't work. This approach is wrong - we already know you can't rely on peoples' willpower in normal tasks, what makes people think it will work with issues that by definition kill whatever willpower reserves you have? Talking about personal responsibility didn't cure obeseity, didn't cure alcoholism, didn't cure drug abuse - so it sure as hell isn't going to cure depression. Now I'm not saying this is equal to putting all hope in drugs. Maybe there are other "social" approaches, but it won't help to tell people that depression is their choice.
LandoCalrissian 11y ago
Honestly that is lot of BS. I get what your saying to a point, but I have never used my depression as an excuse to dismiss any of my normal duties, and I think it's pretty bad that you would assume many would. By all accounts I have a great life, I have friends that have been with me for over 20 years, have a wife who by all my accounts is the greatest person in the world, have an amazing job that I completely love going to every day. I'm truly blessed with what I have, and could never argue otherwise. I am a diagnosed manic depressive and I treat it like alcoholism. You're not going to see an alcoholic stand up in an AA meeting 20 years later and say "I'm not an alcoholic anymore". I treat depression the same way, you have to confront it head on each day and admit what is happening to you mentally. 10 years from now, 20 years from now, whenever. The great irony of that is that alcoholism is recognized as a disease where this article is arguing that depression isn't the same. You can have the best life, the best people in it and still want to top yourself. To "fight the hellish mode" is such a radical oversimplification it's comical. I seriously have some of the best and most longstanding relationships with my friends that makes it most people jealous. Most people don't understand how a group of people could still be with each other after 20+ years. Yet I'm still depressed every day. It's never going away, it will always be there no matter what I do. To characterize that as victimization or lack of effort is exactly what leads people to kill themselves, because whats the point after honestly? You are literally saying their inability to foster positive relationships is what is the problem. Having nothing but positive relationships in my life I can tell you that's bullshit. It's not interaction that fosters the problem, it's fucking depression, the disease. Get off you high horse or were going to have more Aaron Swartz's on our hands. The stigma is a 100% real, and garbage like this just makes people with depression feel more alienated.
- Swannie 11y ago
  I know someone that would describe themselves in a similar situation as yourself. I don't know that this article is complete garbage. My friend certainly felt that therapy (recommended by their psychiatrist) was an extremely valuable tool, in addition to medication, to help them manage their day-to-day symptoms, and to understand the things that would trigger the worse periods. They also felt that therapy allowed them to improve their relationships, which improved their support structure, which was slowly reducing the frequency and duration of the bouts of depression. But yeah, saying that depression can be fixed by therapy is harmful, and after a careful re-read, I'd consider this article as 80% junk.

pessimizer 11y ago

I get how authoritarian pill pushers turn people into libertarian bootstrap people, but just because your depression isn't chemical doesn't mean it's your fault, or that there's anything that you can ultimately do about it by yourself. My problem with the pills is that they don't work, because they're targeted at a made-up disease. That the disease that current practice has lumped people into is made up doesn't mean that people are not suffering, they are, and doesn't mean that they don't need help; we do. Talking to people, making sure that they're healthy, connected, secure, and that they feel like they can express themselves is more expensive than drugging them and/or warehousing them, so I don't think that avoiding the depression diagnosis should reduce public spending or concern with the same sufferers, but raise it. I also assume that when the people who are now lumped together in depression diagnoses are dealt with with more precise approaches, there will always be places among those approaches where drugging and warehousing will be the best option. Treating sadness with drugs is like how we try to cure poverty with teachers.

jolux 11y ago
It's never talking to people _or_ drugging them though. Since when do psychiatrists send you off with a prescription for Prozac and then never see you again? Answer: they don't. Major depression is treated with drugs and therapy. And it's the combination of both that helps. Rarely if ever are patients given drugs so the psychiatrist can avoid giving them therapy.
- bbarn 11y ago
  Yes they absolutely do. Your average Psychiatrist books in 10-15 minute blocks on demand only, and focuses entirely on what drug you need while you're in the office. It's the patient's responsibility (and if they are lucky, a good psychologist in tandem) to follow up on their med treatment.
- 0xcde4c3db 11y ago
  > And it's the combination of both that helps. I think that's overstating it. The chances of recovery are better on average with the combination, but I don't think anyone has really teased out the extent to which this is additive or synergistic on an individual level versus simply having better odds by betting on two lines instead of one.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> It's all down to personal responsibility. You have to find the drive inside to constantly push. To forget the victim mentality that society encourages. To fix one problem at a time. To fight the hellish mode that your mind has enabled. This is what doesn't work. This approach is wrong - we already know you can't rely on peoples' willpower in normal tasks, what makes people think it will work with issues that by definition kill whatever willpower reserves you have? Talking about personal responsibility didn't cure obeseity, didn't cure alcoholism, didn't cure drug abuse - so it sure as hell isn't going to cure depression. Now I'm not saying this is equal to putting all hope in drugs. Maybe there are other "social" approaches, but it won't help to tell people that depression is their choice.

LandoCalrissian 11y ago

Honestly that is lot of BS. I get what your saying to a point, but I have never used my depression as an excuse to dismiss any of my normal duties, and I think it's pretty bad that you would assume many would. By all accounts I have a great life, I have friends that have been with me for over 20 years, have a wife who by all my accounts is the greatest person in the world, have an amazing job that I completely love going to every day. I'm truly blessed with what I have, and could never argue otherwise. I am a diagnosed manic depressive and I treat it like alcoholism. You're not going to see an alcoholic stand up in an AA meeting 20 years later and say "I'm not an alcoholic anymore". I treat depression the same way, you have to confront it head on each day and admit what is happening to you mentally. 10 years from now, 20 years from now, whenever. The great irony of that is that alcoholism is recognized as a disease where this article is arguing that depression isn't the same. You can have the best life, the best people in it and still want to top yourself. To "fight the hellish mode" is such a radical oversimplification it's comical. I seriously have some of the best and most longstanding relationships with my friends that makes it most people jealous. Most people don't understand how a group of people could still be with each other after 20+ years. Yet I'm still depressed every day. It's never going away, it will always be there no matter what I do. To characterize that as victimization or lack of effort is exactly what leads people to kill themselves, because whats the point after honestly? You are literally saying their inability to foster positive relationships is what is the problem. Having nothing but positive relationships in my life I can tell you that's bullshit. It's not interaction that fosters the problem, it's fucking depression, the disease. Get off you high horse or were going to have more Aaron Swartz's on our hands. The stigma is a 100% real, and garbage like this just makes people with depression feel more alienated.

Swannie 11y ago
I know someone that would describe themselves in a similar situation as yourself. I don't know that this article is complete garbage. My friend certainly felt that therapy (recommended by their psychiatrist) was an extremely valuable tool, in addition to medication, to help them manage their day-to-day symptoms, and to understand the things that would trigger the worse periods. They also felt that therapy allowed them to improve their relationships, which improved their support structure, which was slowly reducing the frequency and duration of the bouts of depression. But yeah, saying that depression can be fixed by therapy is harmful, and after a careful re-read, I'd consider this article as 80% junk.