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The problem is that karma is all-important on this site, and ends up creating different social strata, and a feedback mechanism which is what these other poster

The problem is that karma is all-important on this site, and ends up creating different social strata, and a feedback mechanism which is what these other posters are complaining about. On Reddit, for example, it really doesn't matter if you get a few downvotes. Your post is still visible, and you still have the ability to up or downvote anyone else. You are not a lesser member of the community on that site when you get some downvotes. On here, you are. The system is explicitly designed to make it an echo chamber. If you have low karma, you can't downvote people, you can't post very much, and there are probably other more subtle ways they punish you for having low karma. So it's absolutely to your advantage, if you want to be a member of this "community" and actually have your posts seen and commented on so you can participate in useful and interesting discussion, to self-censor.

lotharbot 11y ago
> "If you have low karma, you can't downvote people" This is a good thing. It makes it difficult to create a downvote-bot-brigade. It means that only people who have participated in building the community up to a certain degree have the right to act as gatekeepers. > "you can't post very much" I'm not aware of any such restriction, except for very-very new accounts. > "it's absolutely to your advantage ... to self-censor" In a sense, this is by design. If downvotes don't help people learn what sort of comment is and isn't welcome here, then we'd be overrun with cat pictures. Downvotes are supposed to teach you "this doesn't belong" just like upvotes are supposed to teach you "this is an appreciated comment". I think it's even OK that occasionally a decent comment will pick up a couple of downvotes because it's slightly disagreeable, poorly written, or just that someone clicked the wrong button on accident -- a few random points of negative won't hurt someone whose contributions are generally positive. Where it becomes a problem is when well-thought-out, civil, reasonable comments get heavily downvoted. When someone with a contrary opinion can't make any positive progress. I try to make it a point to toss upvotes on comments like that, but perhaps more could be done. One thought: even if we don't require a comment box for all downvotes, perhaps requiring a comment box for downvoting something beyond a certain level of negative (like, beyond -1) would keep people from piling on mindlessly or needlessly.
jandrese 11y ago
If you put even a basic effort into posting quality content and avoid trolling you will have positive karma. This is always true. You may take a hit from time to time, but in the long run your total score will be overwhelmingly positive. This is true of every forum. You only need to worry about karma if you like to start arguments or shitpost.

lotharbot 11y ago

> "If you have low karma, you can't downvote people" This is a good thing. It makes it difficult to create a downvote-bot-brigade. It means that only people who have participated in building the community up to a certain degree have the right to act as gatekeepers. > "you can't post very much" I'm not aware of any such restriction, except for very-very new accounts. > "it's absolutely to your advantage ... to self-censor" In a sense, this is by design. If downvotes don't help people learn what sort of comment is and isn't welcome here, then we'd be overrun with cat pictures. Downvotes are supposed to teach you "this doesn't belong" just like upvotes are supposed to teach you "this is an appreciated comment". I think it's even OK that occasionally a decent comment will pick up a couple of downvotes because it's slightly disagreeable, poorly written, or just that someone clicked the wrong button on accident -- a few random points of negative won't hurt someone whose contributions are generally positive. Where it becomes a problem is when well-thought-out, civil, reasonable comments get heavily downvoted. When someone with a contrary opinion can't make any positive progress. I try to make it a point to toss upvotes on comments like that, but perhaps more could be done. One thought: even if we don't require a comment box for all downvotes, perhaps requiring a comment box for downvoting something beyond a certain level of negative (like, beyond -1) would keep people from piling on mindlessly or needlessly.

jandrese 11y ago

If you put even a basic effort into posting quality content and avoid trolling you will have positive karma. This is always true. You may take a hit from time to time, but in the long run your total score will be overwhelmingly positive. This is true of every forum. You only need to worry about karma if you like to start arguments or shitpost.