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> I often find myself self-censoring or abandoning the comment halfway, because I know it will get down voted and it's just a waste of time. Please don't, it i

> I often find myself self-censoring or abandoning the comment halfway, because I know it will get down voted and it's just a waste of time. Please don't, it is just karma. > Which brings me to the thought: If one of the most intelligent and open minded online communities can exhibit censorship or can determine users to self-censor, then what can be said about other communities/platforms ? I think its an example of a problem that is difficult to solve because you want to surface the content that makes the majority happy which becomes naturally self reinforcing. That said, I'd like to see a platform that surfaces heavily downvoted content that received some upvotes as a hybrid with purely upvoted content. [e.g. +70, -100 is a comment probably worth ranking at +35 because the downvote/upvote split is likely opinion-based rather than purely factual]

Grishnakh 11y ago
It is not "just karma". This isn't Reddit. On here, low karma means you can't downvote (while higher-karma people can, so they can use that to suppress the opinions of the low-karma people), which effectively makes you a second-class citizen here. Even worse, if the mods disagree strongly with your post, they'll happily detach it (so no one else can see it) and threaten to ban you.
- fweespee_ch 11y ago
  It is to me. I've got ~9 HN accounts over 1k and I cycle to a new one every so often because that is how little I care about the features that karma-gated. If you take HN seriously enough to care, ummm, why? No offense but this place largely acts like a more technically sophisticated Reddit with everything from downvoting factual statements to upvoting provably false opinion. That doesn't include the inherent bias in the design towards YC companies and so forth.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    How long have you been on here? I've been on here a few months I think, and I'm just a little over 400. I'm still a long way from 1000, and that's just one account. So to me, karma is pretty important; AFAIC, I'm just a second-class citizen here at this point. I do agree about your comparison to Reddit. Honestly, if my workplace didn't block Reddit, I probably wouldn't spend much time here.
    - fweespee_ch 11y ago
      > How long have you been on here? This account got over 300 karma in 20 days. ~60-90 days is how long it usually takes me to hit 1000+. On and off since 2010. If you want, I could probably give you one of my 1000+ accounts. I'm not sure if that is against the guidelines tho. I suppose I could email dang. xD
  - ionforce 11y ago
    Why do you care to care so little? Why not just stick to one account?
    - fweespee_ch 11y ago
      Why would I care more? My HN account provides me with no financial benefits and exists purely for entertainment value.
- MaulingMonkey 11y ago
  > It is not "just karma". On here, low karma means you can't downvote (while higher-karma people can, so they can use that to suppress the opinions of the low-karma people) It is "just karma". Without karma, you can't negatively effect other people's karma, which is also just karma. This is the default state everyone started in. Moreover, you can still suppress opinions while having low karma - simply upvote everything else. I'm of the opinion that the style of disagreement matters a lot more than the opinion itself, for karma impact. I have seen - in another community, granted - serious arguments in favor of cannibalism gain more upvotes than down, because it was done in a well reasoned and constructive manner. As for communities where this isn't the case? Well, I'm interested in proper conversation and dialog on topics. One that prefers unity of thought, instead, is an echo chamber of parrots I want no part in - voting/karma system or not. I have left communities over smaller issues, and lived a happier life for it. In that case, it's not even "just karma" - it's "just karma in a community I've left." > Even worse, if the mods disagree strongly with your post, they'll happily detach it (so no one else can see it) and threaten to ban you. That can happen regardless of your karma - speaking from the perspective of a 'karma' 1%er in another community who's eaten temp-bans.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    I disagree. On here, with low karma, you're a second-class citizen. You have much less ability to suppress opinions; you can only upvote, not downvote, so you can't target someone specifically. Hoping to drown them out by upvoting everything else isn't the same; only posts that are actually downvoted get turned to gray here. So because of this mechanism, this place ends up being exactly what you complain about: "an echo chamber of parrots".
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Newbie complaint. Stick around for a little while, get a little karma, and become a full citizen. This isn't some echo chamber just because newbies can't drive the conversation. Just the opposite.

Grishnakh 11y ago

It is not "just karma". This isn't Reddit. On here, low karma means you can't downvote (while higher-karma people can, so they can use that to suppress the opinions of the low-karma people), which effectively makes you a second-class citizen here. Even worse, if the mods disagree strongly with your post, they'll happily detach it (so no one else can see it) and threaten to ban you.

fweespee_ch 11y ago
It is to me. I've got ~9 HN accounts over 1k and I cycle to a new one every so often because that is how little I care about the features that karma-gated. If you take HN seriously enough to care, ummm, why? No offense but this place largely acts like a more technically sophisticated Reddit with everything from downvoting factual statements to upvoting provably false opinion. That doesn't include the inherent bias in the design towards YC companies and so forth.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  How long have you been on here? I've been on here a few months I think, and I'm just a little over 400. I'm still a long way from 1000, and that's just one account. So to me, karma is pretty important; AFAIC, I'm just a second-class citizen here at this point. I do agree about your comparison to Reddit. Honestly, if my workplace didn't block Reddit, I probably wouldn't spend much time here.
  - fweespee_ch 11y ago
    > How long have you been on here? This account got over 300 karma in 20 days. ~60-90 days is how long it usually takes me to hit 1000+. On and off since 2010. If you want, I could probably give you one of my 1000+ accounts. I'm not sure if that is against the guidelines tho. I suppose I could email dang. xD
- ionforce 11y ago
  Why do you care to care so little? Why not just stick to one account?
  - fweespee_ch 11y ago
    Why would I care more? My HN account provides me with no financial benefits and exists purely for entertainment value.
MaulingMonkey 11y ago
> It is not "just karma". On here, low karma means you can't downvote (while higher-karma people can, so they can use that to suppress the opinions of the low-karma people) It is "just karma". Without karma, you can't negatively effect other people's karma, which is also just karma. This is the default state everyone started in. Moreover, you can still suppress opinions while having low karma - simply upvote everything else. I'm of the opinion that the style of disagreement matters a lot more than the opinion itself, for karma impact. I have seen - in another community, granted - serious arguments in favor of cannibalism gain more upvotes than down, because it was done in a well reasoned and constructive manner. As for communities where this isn't the case? Well, I'm interested in proper conversation and dialog on topics. One that prefers unity of thought, instead, is an echo chamber of parrots I want no part in - voting/karma system or not. I have left communities over smaller issues, and lived a happier life for it. In that case, it's not even "just karma" - it's "just karma in a community I've left." > Even worse, if the mods disagree strongly with your post, they'll happily detach it (so no one else can see it) and threaten to ban you. That can happen regardless of your karma - speaking from the perspective of a 'karma' 1%er in another community who's eaten temp-bans.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  I disagree. On here, with low karma, you're a second-class citizen. You have much less ability to suppress opinions; you can only upvote, not downvote, so you can't target someone specifically. Hoping to drown them out by upvoting everything else isn't the same; only posts that are actually downvoted get turned to gray here. So because of this mechanism, this place ends up being exactly what you complain about: "an echo chamber of parrots".
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Newbie complaint. Stick around for a little while, get a little karma, and become a full citizen. This isn't some echo chamber just because newbies can't drive the conversation. Just the opposite.