5 ms·

So? It's still a shitty joke, and in the Apple case it breaks a key rule of comedy by punching down. It also leaves a really bad taste in your mouth for the re

by m3rc 11y ago

So? It's still a shitty joke, and in the Apple case it breaks a key rule of comedy by punching down. It also leaves a really bad taste in your mouth for the rest of the address because instead of Apple trying to increase profits by building better products, it starts to become Apple guilting people into buying things they don't need just because their possessions are old. It especially feels crappy when no product they unveiled was anything except a yearly iteration.

tombert 11y ago
If a web developer gets frustrated by having to support Internet Explorer 8, is that offensive? "How dare you! You're punching down at people who are stuck with Windows XP!" The internet is very good at being offended by everything.
- m3rc 11y ago
  Not upgrading from IE8 is the same as using a laptop made 5 years ago now?
  - tombert 11y ago
    My point is that no one has this outrage machine when web developers whine about Internet Explorer, even though plenty of people are stuck using it for financial reasons, just like people who are stuck with five-year-old computers, and as a developer, I actually do find it frustrating when I have to support older hardware. I'll admit the choice of the word "sad" might have been poor, but it's hardly worth getting offended over.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Aren't there better alternatives to IE that don't cost money? That doesn't seem to be the same at all. Much of the reason older PCs are still useful is because the software is still mutable, often at no monetary cost.
      - tombert 11y ago
        Plenty of companies cannot upgrade away from IE because the cost would be too high. I worked at a company that only worked with IE7 at one point. Sure, I could have said "just use Firefox" or "just use Chrome...It's free!", but that wasn't really an option. Now, granted, I'm aware that a company is not the same as a person, but it was just a dumb example I used to kind of point out that getting offended because Apple "punched down" is kind of arbitrary.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Why wasn't using Firefox or Chrome an option? They're free. Maybe corporate policy prohibited it, but that means it's basically a choice to keep using old and broken stuff. People find Apple's statement offensive because the people who use old PCs tend to be poor, so that statement was basically shitting on poor people for not having the means to buy new electronics. I don't see how your example compares.
        tombert 11y ago
        Their web app broke when using anything but Internet Explorer 7, and they couldn't afford to upgrade it to modern web standards (they actually did get an estimate to do exactly that), so no, they didn't have a choice, really. I'm done with this topic; be as offended as you want.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Are you under the impression that it's not possible to have two browsers installed simultaneously?
        rakoo 11y ago
        Are you under the impression that all web pages and all web applications have been created with utmost respect for the standard and only the one standard (and not a specific browser in mind) and have been maintained for the last 10 years ? Because those applications, that only work with IE (and not a too recent one !) do exist, and are a PITA to work with. It's not like the application would have some glitches or some CSS properties that don't render correctly with Chrome or Firefox; it's a real "does not work".
    - pfg 11y ago
      There's a huge difference between running outdated software with serious security problems and using older hardware that might be perfectly capable of running a modern OS and modern web browsers. I own both a 7 year old desktop PC and a 5 year old laptop that I use occasionally when I need to run some Windows-only program, and they're both perfectly capable of running Windows 10 and every other piece of software I've thrown at it.
theseatoms 11y ago
Not punching down is a key rule of comedy? That would be news to the majority of working comedians.
ProAm 11y ago
Apple expects it's customers to spend ~1100 every two years on their products. So it's sad for Apple that people are waiting 5 years to think about new hardware.

by m3rc 11y ago

tombert 11y ago

If a web developer gets frustrated by having to support Internet Explorer 8, is that offensive? "How dare you! You're punching down at people who are stuck with Windows XP!" The internet is very good at being offended by everything.

m3rc 11y ago
Not upgrading from IE8 is the same as using a laptop made 5 years ago now?
- tombert 11y ago
  My point is that no one has this outrage machine when web developers whine about Internet Explorer, even though plenty of people are stuck using it for financial reasons, just like people who are stuck with five-year-old computers, and as a developer, I actually do find it frustrating when I have to support older hardware. I'll admit the choice of the word "sad" might have been poor, but it's hardly worth getting offended over.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Aren't there better alternatives to IE that don't cost money? That doesn't seem to be the same at all. Much of the reason older PCs are still useful is because the software is still mutable, often at no monetary cost.
    - tombert 11y ago
      Plenty of companies cannot upgrade away from IE because the cost would be too high. I worked at a company that only worked with IE7 at one point. Sure, I could have said "just use Firefox" or "just use Chrome...It's free!", but that wasn't really an option. Now, granted, I'm aware that a company is not the same as a person, but it was just a dumb example I used to kind of point out that getting offended because Apple "punched down" is kind of arbitrary.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Why wasn't using Firefox or Chrome an option? They're free. Maybe corporate policy prohibited it, but that means it's basically a choice to keep using old and broken stuff. People find Apple's statement offensive because the people who use old PCs tend to be poor, so that statement was basically shitting on poor people for not having the means to buy new electronics. I don't see how your example compares.
        tombert 11y ago
        Their web app broke when using anything but Internet Explorer 7, and they couldn't afford to upgrade it to modern web standards (they actually did get an estimate to do exactly that), so no, they didn't have a choice, really. I'm done with this topic; be as offended as you want.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Are you under the impression that it's not possible to have two browsers installed simultaneously?
        rakoo 11y ago
        Are you under the impression that all web pages and all web applications have been created with utmost respect for the standard and only the one standard (and not a specific browser in mind) and have been maintained for the last 10 years ? Because those applications, that only work with IE (and not a too recent one !) do exist, and are a PITA to work with. It's not like the application would have some glitches or some CSS properties that don't render correctly with Chrome or Firefox; it's a real "does not work".
  - pfg 11y ago
    There's a huge difference between running outdated software with serious security problems and using older hardware that might be perfectly capable of running a modern OS and modern web browsers. I own both a 7 year old desktop PC and a 5 year old laptop that I use occasionally when I need to run some Windows-only program, and they're both perfectly capable of running Windows 10 and every other piece of software I've thrown at it.

theseatoms 11y ago

Not punching down is a key rule of comedy? That would be news to the majority of working comedians.

ProAm 11y ago

Apple expects it's customers to spend ~1100 every two years on their products. So it's sad for Apple that people are waiting 5 years to think about new hardware.