4 ms·

Overall i'm not agree with statement, but what he was talking about is that Windows drivers have tons of hacks to optimize certain D3D code paths that used by m

by SXX 11y ago

Overall i'm not agree with statement, but what he was talking about is that Windows drivers have tons of hacks to optimize certain D3D code paths that used by most games and sometimes even fully replace whole shaders with GPU vendor one.

geofft 11y ago
Why wouldn't those hacks happen on Linux? I guess the reason is that they're specific to Direct3D and not OpenGL, but for those games that do OpenGL on Windows (which I think is somewhat common), wouldn't the same hacks be present in the Linux OpenGL drivers as the Windows OpenGL ones?
- SXX 11y ago
  Of course they would and that is reason why I don't agree with the statement. Even AMD had profile for Valve games that improved performance on their blob and Nvidia had several different profiles some of which come from Windows drivers: to be exact one for id Software games that was always using OpenGL on Windows. Of course there is open source drivers that will likely never support game-specific optimizations since for them codebase quality and overall performance is more important than few tricks that make specific games faster.
- exelius 11y ago
  OpenGL is actually not all that common on Windows anymore -- D3D is more performant, and having a a DX11 compatible card isn't as big of a hurdle these days. Also, the big engines all support both for cross-platform reasons, but most devs will default to D3D on Windows because it's more likely to work consistently across various permutations of hardware/OS/peripherals (IMO this is more because Windows sucks; but Microsoft is well versed in the very specific ways that Windows sucks so they can work around them). : When I say "Windows sucks", I'm just talking about the complexity inherent in dealing with a consumer operating system designed to run on arbitrary 3rd party hardware. APIs like DirectX/Direct3D provide an abstraction layer that make the complexity more manageable; and they have a benefit in that they are provided by Microsoft.
- warkid 11y ago
  They present on Windows because gpu (driver) vendors choose spend tons of their money to make them happen. And they spend their money exactly why? Because they see their profit in Windows pc market.
  - shmerl 11y ago
    Intel, AMD and Nvidia work on Linux Vulkan support as well. They aren't tied to Windows.
    - exelius 11y ago
      I would argue that Linux Vulkan support from Intel/AMD/NVidia is likely aimed more at Android than traditional Linux desktop distros. Also, the whole point of Vulkan is to move these card-specific optimizations outside of the core driver while still letting games use kernel space to interface directly with the hardware (and doubtless platform vendors will put an abstraction layer on top of that like Metal on iOS). So the whole situation I'm describing has been a huge pain for a long time, but things are starting to get better.

by SXX 11y ago

geofft 11y ago

Why wouldn't those hacks happen on Linux? I guess the reason is that they're specific to Direct3D and not OpenGL, but for those games that do OpenGL on Windows (which I think is somewhat common), wouldn't the same hacks be present in the Linux OpenGL drivers as the Windows OpenGL ones?

SXX 11y ago
Of course they would and that is reason why I don't agree with the statement. Even AMD had profile for Valve games that improved performance on their blob and Nvidia had several different profiles some of which come from Windows drivers: to be exact one for id Software games that was always using OpenGL on Windows. Of course there is open source drivers that will likely never support game-specific optimizations since for them codebase quality and overall performance is more important than few tricks that make specific games faster.
exelius 11y ago
OpenGL is actually not all that common on Windows anymore -- D3D is more performant, and having a a DX11 compatible card isn't as big of a hurdle these days. Also, the big engines all support both for cross-platform reasons, but most devs will default to D3D on Windows because it's more likely to work consistently across various permutations of hardware/OS/peripherals (IMO this is more because Windows sucks; but Microsoft is well versed in the very specific ways that Windows sucks so they can work around them). : When I say "Windows sucks", I'm just talking about the complexity inherent in dealing with a consumer operating system designed to run on arbitrary 3rd party hardware. APIs like DirectX/Direct3D provide an abstraction layer that make the complexity more manageable; and they have a benefit in that they are provided by Microsoft.
warkid 11y ago
They present on Windows because gpu (driver) vendors choose spend tons of their money to make them happen. And they spend their money exactly why? Because they see their profit in Windows pc market.
- shmerl 11y ago
  Intel, AMD and Nvidia work on Linux Vulkan support as well. They aren't tied to Windows.
  - exelius 11y ago
    I would argue that Linux Vulkan support from Intel/AMD/NVidia is likely aimed more at Android than traditional Linux desktop distros. Also, the whole point of Vulkan is to move these card-specific optimizations outside of the core driver while still letting games use kernel space to interface directly with the hardware (and doubtless platform vendors will put an abstraction layer on top of that like Metal on iOS). So the whole situation I'm describing has been a huge pain for a long time, but things are starting to get better.