4 ms·

Windows 7 was released in 2009 - seven years ago. Even that is pretty far in terms of backwards compatibility.

0x0 11y ago
Perhaps he was complaining about the lack of OSX/Linux support. I'm certainly looking to other VR solutions because of that.
- coldpie 11y ago
  HTC/Valve claim to be working on SteamOS/Linux support, but it won't be ready at launch. I don't think Valve has given up on SteamOS yet, so there is reason to hold out hope. I had to install Windows for the first time in almost a decade for the Vive :( https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/412448158164353829/#c412448158165700144 https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/... [Anyone still on winxp is a dangerous maniac, and I sincerely hope that's not what the OP meant.]
  - dEnigma 11y ago
    Really disappointing to see that SteamOS is just a second thought even for Valve's own projects, seems like they don't really care about it after all.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      I think they do care about it. The guy in that support thread said they're working on it just earlier this month. I think that's at least a step up from "maybe someday."
- uptown 11y ago
  I'm in the Oculus pre-order queue, but still don't have a viable PC. I think some of the pre-release Oculus headsets would run on a Mac. Is it a complete no-go with the production builds?
  - SXX 11y ago
    It's just their store and games they funded not going to be on Mac. There still other VR SDKs like Valve's OpenVR that likely will soon work on any OS with Oculus. Of course it's won't happen in few days, but it's will certainly appear before official support.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      It's not quite that simple. Oculus devices require a server process, which is closed source and Windows-only. Games talk to the server process, which talks to the hardware. OpenVR abstracts the hardware access APIs so games can be platform-agnostic, but it's still built on top of the server process. It's possible someone could build an open source reimplementation of the Oculus server process to run on Mac/Linux, but I think that's unrealistic. A more likely option is to run the Oculus server process in Wine, and this is something we're actively looking at. (If you're a game/VR dev and interested in doing Real Work to support the Rift or Vive on Linux through Wine, send me a mail.)
      - SXX 11y ago
        Oh, I didn't know they fully dropped this "osvrd" support together with Linux SDK and it's irreplaceable. Looks like I'll need to wait for some other device to buy...
  - coldpie 11y ago
    Oculus officially dropped Mac & Linux support ages ago. It might come back in the future, but they haven't announced anything.
  - berberous 11y ago
    1) They stopped updating the mac SDK, so probably not. 2) Even if you could get around the above, I would strongly recommend against running the Oculus on underspecced hardware. It won't just look worse -- if your framerate is low enough the judder will make you physically sick.
    - 11y ago
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  The hardware to run an Oculus Rift on Mac isn't available, even at the $6,000 top-end Mac Pro with 2x AMD FirePro D700. It's a nonexistent market. As for Linux, comparatively tiny market, but one I imagine they'll go after eventually. Has anyone announced plans for a VR-capable Steam Machine? EDIT: For reference on the Mac Pro, note that it has not been updated since the first release of the black "trash can" version in late 2013.
  - exelius 11y ago
    > Has anyone announced plans for a VR-capable Steam Machine? This is basically a non-starter until the video driver situation on Linux gets resolved. The core of the problem is that AMD/Nvidia only produce optimized drivers for their cards for Windows (and presumably the consoles who source from them). Those optimizations provide such a significant speed boost (~30-40% in real-world usage) that trying to do VR without them is going to be difficult, at least until the first few generations of VR drive demand for exponentially more powerful video cards. Of course, the drivers are optimized over the course of years by tweaking them to work with specific games, so until there are more games being released on Linux, they won't get the opportunity to optimize the drivers. So it's a chicken-and-egg problem: the drivers aren't optimized because there aren't any games, there aren't any games because there is no demand, and there's no demand because the performance sucks and the driver situation is hella confusing. Valve is trying to work on the demand/supply side with SteamOS, but everyone on both sides is kinda hesitant unless the driver situation gets resolved. Right now, Steam Machines are just a convenient way to order a gaming PC without a Windows license. Everyone I know who has bought one ended up installing Windows on it within the first week and just running it in Big Picture mode.
    - SXX 11y ago
      You seriously overestimate "driver optimization" importance for modern games. Optimizations are of course important, but in most of cases it's not more than 5-10%. For instance Nvidia proprietary driver without any special optimizations can easily achieve 50-80% of Windows performance depend on game in Wine which translates D3D9 API calls into OpenGL. There is also Gallium3D Nine state tracker that usable on AMD open source drivers which is implement D3D9 natively on Linux. It's can easily achieve 80-95% performance in some cases and this is with very limited number of developers.

0x0 11y ago

Perhaps he was complaining about the lack of OSX/Linux support. I'm certainly looking to other VR solutions because of that.

coldpie 11y ago
HTC/Valve claim to be working on SteamOS/Linux support, but it won't be ready at launch. I don't think Valve has given up on SteamOS yet, so there is reason to hold out hope. I had to install Windows for the first time in almost a decade for the Vive :( https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/412448158164353829/#c412448158165700144 https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/... [Anyone still on winxp is a dangerous maniac, and I sincerely hope that's not what the OP meant.]
- dEnigma 11y ago
  Really disappointing to see that SteamOS is just a second thought even for Valve's own projects, seems like they don't really care about it after all.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    I think they do care about it. The guy in that support thread said they're working on it just earlier this month. I think that's at least a step up from "maybe someday."
uptown 11y ago
I'm in the Oculus pre-order queue, but still don't have a viable PC. I think some of the pre-release Oculus headsets would run on a Mac. Is it a complete no-go with the production builds?
- SXX 11y ago
  It's just their store and games they funded not going to be on Mac. There still other VR SDKs like Valve's OpenVR that likely will soon work on any OS with Oculus. Of course it's won't happen in few days, but it's will certainly appear before official support.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    It's not quite that simple. Oculus devices require a server process, which is closed source and Windows-only. Games talk to the server process, which talks to the hardware. OpenVR abstracts the hardware access APIs so games can be platform-agnostic, but it's still built on top of the server process. It's possible someone could build an open source reimplementation of the Oculus server process to run on Mac/Linux, but I think that's unrealistic. A more likely option is to run the Oculus server process in Wine, and this is something we're actively looking at. (If you're a game/VR dev and interested in doing Real Work to support the Rift or Vive on Linux through Wine, send me a mail.)
    - SXX 11y ago
      Oh, I didn't know they fully dropped this "osvrd" support together with Linux SDK and it's irreplaceable. Looks like I'll need to wait for some other device to buy...
- coldpie 11y ago
  Oculus officially dropped Mac & Linux support ages ago. It might come back in the future, but they haven't announced anything.
- berberous 11y ago
  1) They stopped updating the mac SDK, so probably not. 2) Even if you could get around the above, I would strongly recommend against running the Oculus on underspecced hardware. It won't just look worse -- if your framerate is low enough the judder will make you physically sick.
  - 11y ago
wlesieutre 11y ago
The hardware to run an Oculus Rift on Mac isn't available, even at the $6,000 top-end Mac Pro with 2x AMD FirePro D700. It's a nonexistent market. As for Linux, comparatively tiny market, but one I imagine they'll go after eventually. Has anyone announced plans for a VR-capable Steam Machine? EDIT: For reference on the Mac Pro, note that it has not been updated since the first release of the black "trash can" version in late 2013.
- exelius 11y ago
  > Has anyone announced plans for a VR-capable Steam Machine? This is basically a non-starter until the video driver situation on Linux gets resolved. The core of the problem is that AMD/Nvidia only produce optimized drivers for their cards for Windows (and presumably the consoles who source from them). Those optimizations provide such a significant speed boost (~30-40% in real-world usage) that trying to do VR without them is going to be difficult, at least until the first few generations of VR drive demand for exponentially more powerful video cards. Of course, the drivers are optimized over the course of years by tweaking them to work with specific games, so until there are more games being released on Linux, they won't get the opportunity to optimize the drivers. So it's a chicken-and-egg problem: the drivers aren't optimized because there aren't any games, there aren't any games because there is no demand, and there's no demand because the performance sucks and the driver situation is hella confusing. Valve is trying to work on the demand/supply side with SteamOS, but everyone on both sides is kinda hesitant unless the driver situation gets resolved. Right now, Steam Machines are just a convenient way to order a gaming PC without a Windows license. Everyone I know who has bought one ended up installing Windows on it within the first week and just running it in Big Picture mode.
  - SXX 11y ago
    You seriously overestimate "driver optimization" importance for modern games. Optimizations are of course important, but in most of cases it's not more than 5-10%. For instance Nvidia proprietary driver without any special optimizations can easily achieve 50-80% of Windows performance depend on game in Wine which translates D3D9 API calls into OpenGL. There is also Gallium3D Nine state tracker that usable on AMD open source drivers which is implement D3D9 natively on Linux. It's can easily achieve 80-95% performance in some cases and this is with very limited number of developers.